Instrumental Music vs Song-based stuff....

[magnusdeus123]

I've just been checking out videos of Ahmet Koc on youtube .

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...&search=Search

Awesome composer and instrumentalist in the traditional turkish instrument of Baglama(?)

Anyways , while going through his vid's I realized an important factor . Most popular music is vocal based in todays world . I guess thats largely not only because people just like vocals , but also because it is easier to get a message across to the audience of what the piece is trying to convey through vox .

However Western European classical music , which is still considered one of the greatest art forms , as well as Bebop Jazz , and other derivatives of really complex jazz is highly instrumental , if not completely as it is in most cases .

This brings an interesting point up . Does use of Vocals involve the 'dumbing down' of a certain composition ?? because to express the same emotion through raw musical prowess as opposed to lyrics is highly difficult , requires a large level of compositional skill right ??

Also I noticed another point in favor of instrumentals . Vocals often bracket the musical piece within a certain audience , mostly within the limits of the country wherein the music is performed . A good example of this is German Industrial Rock or Neue Duestche Harte as it is called . I love the type of music , but because of the fact that the vox is german , a large no. of population outside germany who would support this kind of music otherwise are totally unaware of it . Ofcourse the artists decision also comes into play , but yeah . The point is that Vocal-less instrumental music breaks that bracket , and the music can be appreciated by all , without any prejudices .

Anyways , just wanted to throw that out , and see if it can stir some intellectual replies . Have any of you guys got Instrumental bands ?? I would like to hear from you guys....

[BassChuck]

Good question, and there'll be a lot of different points of view. I know from teaching music to 12-13 year olds that many of them find it difficult to listen to music that has no vocals. To them, 'classical' music has violins, but no words. "Good" music has lots of drums. But these kids are young and have heard very little music.

One thing to consider is that vocal music reaches out to the listener and pulls them in with an easy idea to understand. With instrumental music, the listener has to go into the music themselves, or in other words approach it as an artistic experience. Not as many people are willing or able to do that.

Another point to consider is that we talk to people around us, we don't scat or whistle. Words are always a form of communication, melody (without words) is less a part of our daily experience.

Lastly..... remember that half the people you meet today will have an IQ of less than 100.

[Mitchell Royce]

That is a very good thought, Basschuck. I think I remember reading that most music has vocals because humans pay more attention to the human voice on a subconscious level. Which makes sense, I guess, from an evolutionary viewpoint.
The human voice is capapable of some very cool stuff that is rarely present in music such as throat singing or the chorals of Ligeti, though.

Personally, I find singing is fine as long as 1) the lyrics are genuinely engaging, which is very rare or 2) they are unintelligible so that I can't understand them, basically taking on the role of just another instrument.

[c_joseph_lier]

Another point that I have heard is that the reason that Popular music is set up the way that it is, is because we as a race have an attantion span of 2 and 1/2 minutes ... now, most jazz, instrumental, classical, whatever is longer than that, and even if it has movements, or sections that change the feel, it is still too long for the average human ear ... Additionally, trying to tell someone which song you are refering to instrumentally involves people trying to sing the parts ... Me personally, i prefer anything instrumental over anything that has vocals on it ... instruments have more to say i feel...

[magnusdeus123]

Originally Posted by BassChuck

.......

One thing to consider is that vocal music reaches out to the listener and pulls them in with an easy idea to understand. With instrumental music, the listener has to go into the music themselves, or in other words approach it as an artistic experience. Not as many people are willing or able to do that.

......

Well good music should be able to interest even the most lazy listeners......like this guy :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXG6bBTQzJc

Originally Posted by BassChuck

you meet today will have an IQ of less than 100.

Amen on that .

[Audiophage]

You don't really have to "dumb down" music for vocals with lyrics. It's just sometimes a matter of shifting the musical focus to the singer. Pop music just tends to always have that focus, as opposed to opera where it switches between the singers and the orchestra.

Vocal music tends to be simpler than instrumental because, generally, vocalists aren't as capable of the technical things that instrumentalists are. At the same times the limitations of voices are different from those of instruments, so some of the technical stuff isn't nearly as necessary. I mean, do you realise how amazingly hard it would be for vocalists to sing something like a serial composition?

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Audiophage

You don't really have to "dumb down" music for vocals with lyrics. It's just sometimes a matter of shifting the musical focus to the singer. Pop music just tends to always have that focus, as opposed to opera where it switches between the singers and the orchestra.

+1, I listen to a bunch of bands with large instrumental passages (The Mars Volta, Isis, Mogwai etc.) and I don't think dumbing down is really what those cats are doing. Plus, there are loads of instrument-focused bands that play "simple" stuff and still sound great, like Electric Wizard or Sleep.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

Does use of Vocals involve the 'dumbing down' of a certain composition ??

Two words: Opera

Wait, that's only one word. Here: Opera, dumbass! (j/k)

Also, there's lots of vocal music from the Western Art Music (aka "Classical") world that would challenge the intellects of the most erudite listener. Check out the songs of Charles Ives or Milton Babbitt or any German lied from the late 19th century.

Originally Posted by magnusdeus123

Have any of you guys got Instrumental bands ??

see link in my sig

[BlacksHole]

While I personally prefer instrumental music, I understand the popularity of vocal music. Granted, most of the words to modern music are sophomoric at best and rarely do we get complex contrapuntal lines. But when singing in choirs and the like, I always enjoyed doing the pieces that not only had independent parts, but different words being sung by each section (e.g., soprano, alto, tenor bass). However, when vocal music gets that complex, it is difficult to grasp the actual words as it is hard to listen to two different phrases of sufficient length at the same time. Hence, rounds can be a more popular vocal version of different parts being performed simultaneously. But the human voice is capable of producing many different sounds and for the well trained, can cover a large range.

[CrazyArcher]

I consider vocals a nice-to-have feature, nothing more. While sometimes they fit the role of conveying the message very well, I enjoy long instrumental parts. Bands like Tyr have pretty long tracks with barely any vocals in them (not that the vocals suck), conveying the message mostly through the instruments - now that's my cup of tea!

[Deacon_Blues]

I enjoy both equally much.

However, lyrics add one more dimension to the music that instrumental music doesn't have. That's true especially if the lyrics are intelligently written and makes you think what they are all about. Listen to "The End of the Innocence" by Don Henley and you know what I mean...

[KromaatiKlauun]

in my band we kicked out a singer, and seeing that no one wanted to take that part we became an instrumental band and it was a really good excercise to lock on with all the other musicians. Now we have a singer again, but we liked our instrumental work, even if it wasn't very elaborated stuff, but this new guy likes to be low on the mix (strange, huh?) and we have the best of both worlds, r that's what I want to think

[baalroo]

both have their place and neither are inherently "dumbed down." The group I'm in is about 90% instrumental, but I would never consider the 10% that has vocals to be any less musical/intelligent/interesting.