I've lost all respect for one of my favorite musicians

Byzcat · #1 10-10-2009, 06:53 PM

So, over in the "Bassists" forum, there's the Bob Daisley Appreciation society thread. So, I had a look, being a big Daisley fan.

And, well, I had pretty well dropped out of the metal scene for several years, and I've just dropped back in and...

I found out about the "remasters" of "Blizzard of Oz" and "Diary of a Madman".

Now, I haven't heard enough of Robert Trujillo's work to decide if I like it or not, but at this point, I can't respect him as a musician. He participated in the sacrilege, and thus, I will never buy any album he has ever worked on. Ever. But, no big loss.

But I've been an Ozzy fan for twenty-five years. That's more than half the time I've spent on this planet. I knew that Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake had played on "Diary", but weren't credited for "legal/contractual reasons" or somesuch, and Rudy Sarzo and Tommy Aldridge appeared on the inner sleeve. After finding out that their tracks had essentially been erased and replaced with Trujillo and, dunno who the drummer is, and, why...

Because Ozzy and Sharon didn't want to pay Daisley and Kerslake for their work, or even give them credit for it. They were/are owed performance royalties, as well as credit (I don't believe they ever appeared in the credits for "Diary".)

And I don't think I can ever bring myself to buy another Ozzy record again. I'll never be able to listen to "Crazy Train" or "Believer" the same way again. The music will forever be tainted by the knowledge that Ozzy shafted a great bass player.

@$#%&

RestInPieces · #2 10-11-2009, 07:32 AM

It's all about the money mate. It's the number one reason for this kinda ****

.

Craigmartini · #3 10-11-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byzcat

So, over in the "Bassists" forum, there's the Bob Daisley Appreciation society thread. So, I had a look, being a big Daisley fan.

And, well, I had pretty well dropped out of the metal scene for several years, and I've just dropped back in and...

I found out about the "remasters" of "Blizzard of Oz" and "Diary of a Madman".

Now, I haven't heard enough of Robert Trujillo's work to decide if I like it or not, but at this point, I can't respect him as a musician. He participated in the sacrilege, and thus, I will never buy any album he has ever worked on. Ever. But, no big loss.

But I've been an Ozzy fan for twenty-five years. That's more than half the time I've spent on this planet. I knew that Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake had played on "Diary", but weren't credited for "legal/contractual reasons" or somesuch, and Rudy Sarzo and Tommy Aldridge appeared on the inner sleeve. After finding out that their tracks had essentially been erased and replaced with Trujillo and, dunno who the drummer is, and, why...

Because Ozzy and Sharon didn't want to pay Daisley and Kerslake for their work, or even give them credit for it. They were/are owed performance royalties, as well as credit (I don't believe they ever appeared in the credits for "Diary".)

And I don't think I can ever bring myself to buy another Ozzy record again. I'll never be able to listen to "Crazy Train" or "Believer" the same way again. The music will forever be tainted by the knowledge that Ozzy shafted a great bass player.

@$#%&

I agree that the very idea of replacing the bass and drums on those records is horrible. I was soooooooooo angry when a few years ago I went out and re bought Diary and Blizzard with one of my main reasons being that I really wanted to hear Bob's playing on those records again. I jumped in my truck ripped all the packaging off Blizzard and put it my cd player and immedately I was like HUH?? I knew it was remastered but I did not know the bass and drums were redone until I listened to it. CRAP!!! What a waste of money!

Don't forget though, Rob was in Ozzy's band at the time and wanted to keep his gig so when Sharron told him to record the bass..... He recorded the bass.
This is not Rob's fault, think about it. If he said no, he most likely would have lost his gig and I can imagine there were plenty of other pro bass players who have never even heard Ozzy's music, ready to record the studio bass if he didn't.

It was early in his career, and being offered to play on Ozzy's legendary records had to be too hard to pass up.
I like Rob and I think he is a great player. So I don't hold it aganist him.

I can also guess they were in a big hurry to get it done and back on the shelves and didn't spend to much time letting the bass player get the parts exactly like the original. If the boss says it's good enough and that's who is paying the studio bill, guess what. Your done, it's good enough, like it or not.

Oh and I think the drummer was the guy with super long dreads from Faith No More, he was also in Ozzy's band at the time. I'm not 100% sure on if he recorded though. I can't think of his name off the top of my head.

Anyway just an opinion,
Craig

Qvist · #4 10-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Ozzy is an *******, but there are a lot of assholes in rock'n'roll =/

chrisisnotevil · #5 10-11-2009, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craigmartini

Oh and I think the drummer was the guy with super long dreads from Faith No More, he was also in Ozzy's band at the time. I'm not 100% sure on if he recorded though. I can't think of his name off the top of my head.

Mike "Puffy" Bordin. Legend!

As has been said, don't hate the musicians. They've got bills to pay, and they have to what the boss tells them. What I'd be interested to know is if Ozzy himself was aware of the implications of what was going on or if the evil scheme was cooked up by his management and record company and he was too, um, distracted to take notice...

Byzcat · #6 10-11-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisisnotevil

What I'd be interested to know is if Ozzy himself was aware of the implications of what was going on or if the evil scheme was cooked up by his management and record company and he was too, um, distracted to take notice...

By "distracted", I assume you mean "wasted".

Anyway, it's not Bob Daisley, I'm p1$$3d at, it's Ozzy, though probably, I should be more angry with Sharon. She is his manager, ya know.

I highly doubt that the Osbournes are so poor that they couldn't afford to pay the rhythm section for their work. Which includes songwriting. Daisley wrote most of the lyrics on those albums, including "Suicide Solution."

Qvist, yeah, I know a lot of rock musicians are douchenozzles. A lot of human beings are douchenozzles. But to spend two decades and God knows how much in legal fees just to avoid paying a couple of guys for their work, or even giving them freaking credit for it, then destroy that work, that's just beyond the pale.

Rocker949 · #7 10-11-2009, 02:06 PM

What a load of crap.

Munjibunga · #8 10-11-2009, 02:37 PM

This is big stuff. BTW, who are these people of whom you speak?

Jim Campbell · #9 10-11-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byzcat

By "distracted", I assume you mean "wasted".

Anyway, it's not Bob Daisley, I'm p1$$3d at, it's Ozzy, though probably, I should be more angry with Sharon. She is his manager, ya know.

I highly doubt that the Osbournes are so poor that they couldn't afford to pay the rhythm section for their work. Which includes songwriting. Daisley wrote most of the lyrics on those albums, including "Suicide Solution."

Qvist, yeah, I know a lot of rock musicians are douchenozzles. A lot of human beings are douchenozzles. But to spend two decades and God knows how much in legal fees just to avoid paying a couple of guys for their work, or even giving them freaking credit for it, then destroy that work, that's just beyond the pale.

not poor,but definitely greedy enough to do reality tv...jeez,who really needed to see that family's dirty laundry.......zappa re recorded parts of his catalog,but the reasons given were creative,not financial.....i bought a re master of sleep dirt and it had vocals while the original did not......

either way i prefer the albums to stay as they were,though better sound quality re issues i like

Byzcat · #10 10-11-2009, 05:32 PM

Ya know, I never watched "The Osbournes", Ozzy fan that I was.

I just like the music, I wasn't interested in hanging out in his living room. And it turns out Ozzy wasn't responsible for much of the music, either. He wrote the vocal melodies, and apparently, that's about it.

I wonder how many of the fans actually know what went down with the "Blizzard" and "Diary" remasters, and how it would affect Ozzy's record sales if it were to become common knowledge?

I found the remastered version of "Believer" on YouTube, and you can tell the difference from the first notes. Trujillo just doesn't thump the way Daisley did on the original.

stflbn · #11 10-11-2009, 05:38 PM

I like listening to the originals.

Honestly, I was unaware of remasters and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I wouldn't repurchase them either based on the old performances, or the new performances.

I'm sure there's other re-release, remasters, or re-recordings out there by other groups that have non-original musicians on it.

.

guy n. cognito · #12 10-11-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byzcat

Ya know, I never watched "The Osbournes", Ozzy fan that I was.

I just like the music, I wasn't interested in hanging out in his living room. And it turns out Ozzy wasn't responsible for much of the music, either. He wrote the vocal melodies, and apparently, that's about it.

I wonder how many of the fans actually know what went down with the "Blizzard" and "Diary" remasters, and how it would affect Ozzy's record sales if it were to become common knowledge?

I found the remastered version of "Believer" on YouTube, and you can tell the difference from the first notes. Trujillo just doesn't thump the way Daisley did on the original.

Brother, other than you, no on else gives a flying ****.

Byzcat · #13 10-11-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Brother, other than you, no on else gives a flying ****.

That's sister, actually, and...

I was afraid someone was going to say that.

makanudo · #14 10-11-2009, 09:26 PM

Im sorry, but i think that is not a reason to "loose respect" for a musician, he just played something other people played because he was asked to, its not like he copied it and got credit..

rarisgod · #15 10-11-2009, 10:26 PM

Not a reason to lose respect for Rob Trujillio. Not that I care for him much in the first place, but it's not his fault. He just did what he had to do to keep his paycheck coming.

Byzcat · #16 10-11-2009, 11:23 PM

Yeah, I suppose I really shouldn't hate Trujillo. I imagine most people have done things for money that they've lived to regret. Still, in any kind of work, if my employer said to me, "I don't want to pay the person who used to have your job the money I owe them, oh, and would you mind destroying their work, because I'm supposed to be paying them royalties on an ongoing basis", I would probably take that as a sign that this might not be the best of all possible jobs, and start looking around for another gig.

Pissinger · #17 10-24-2009, 02:26 PM

I'm not sure Ozzy ever wrote a line of lyric in his life, in Black Sabbath Geezer wrote all the lyrics, Ozzy was, as usual, credited for vocal melodies (who knew following the riff is considered a distinct melody?).

Jools4001 · #18 10-24-2009, 04:14 PM

Sharon....Ther's some f***** on talkbass who thinks I'm a f****** A*******

Sharon...what are we going to do Sharon...he's never going to buy any of my records again Sharon....how are we going to feed the kids Sharon

ggunn · #19 10-24-2009, 06:06 PM

FWIW, I judge music on its own merit and I really don't care much about the back stories. What's that HS Thompson quote? Hi ho Google, away...

The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.
-Hunter S. Thompson

dancehallclasher · #20 10-25-2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rarisgod

Not a reason to lose respect for Rob Trujillio. Not that I care for him much in the first place, but it's not his fault. He just did what he had to do to keep his paycheck coming.

That's a terrible justification for a morally questionable action. Not that this is exactly a crime against humanity but still the "just following orders" thing holds no water.