Is it just me, or are the best sound engineers/producers usually bassists?

[Ubersheist]

I read something in an old thread recently, where the poster said something to the effect that 80% of the studio producers he's met are also primarily or originally bass players. This hasn't been my experience exactly with producers. My experience is that they're a mixed bunch. However, the best ones seem to be either keyboardists or bassists in former lives.

With live sound engineering, which I'm more experienced with then studio engineering, they're again a mixed bag of people, but the (former) bassists are usually the best engineers and soundmen, followed not too distantly by keyboardists.

Guitarists seem to typically (although certainly not always) tend to be the worst, and drummers and singers following somewhere in between.

Recently, we had a gig where the sound guy was talking to the guitarist, and he said something like the following: "Don't worry, I'll make your guitar sound good. I'm a guitarist in [a local band], so I like them good and strong." I shivered, and rightly so. We had the worst of the worst of sound guys I've ever encountered for so many reasons.

Anyway, I honestly think that bassists have to listen more to the band as a whole, and therefore make better engineers since they're used to listening to things as a whole. I think keyboardists are generally trained to be more well rounded musicians and understand all the parts of music production and performance more, so they're more apt to be better engineers.

Thoughts?

[Honk'n_down-low]

We Rock and are Omniscient - all your studios belong to us.

I think Bass Players are uniquely positioned to fall into that role. I have done it with my Bands and there are many notable Bassist that have also.

[dkhp124]

Whoever has a good ear for sound, knows what kind of sound your band is going for, and has a respectful, humble approach towards all the instruments would make the best sound engineer regardless of which instrument he himself plays..

IME, two of the best sound guys I've met are both electric guitarists, one of them also being a vocalist. Another guy who is also great at doing sound doesn't play any instrument proficiently, but has an excellent ear, as well as training in audio engineering.

Any time a person has a biased approach to any aspect of the band (like that former guitarist gone sound guy in your post), he'd be limited in what he can do.

[varunkapahi]

imo thats not true at all, a bass playing sound engineer might give you a nice sound but cant say the same thing about the overall band sound you know

[AaronD]

I think it's just comes down to the person. If I was a sound man i would make it sound the way I would want it whereas other people might not like it.
That why I'm not a soundman

[ggunn]

It's just you.

[iamlowsound]

I am a bassist and a great live sound man. I have been doing live sound for way longer than I have been playing bass. I started doing foldback when I was about 9 or 10 and I have done some fairly big stuff now. I can get a great FOH and foldback mix in less than 10 minutes, with a new band in a new building if the band will do what I say. I always get complements on how good it sounded, both from audience and band.

In general it is my experience that anyone who knows how to listen to the sound as a whole and pick out different instruments will make a good sound person. I know a great engineer that is a guitarist and a know a few bassists that couldn't pull off a decent mix if there was a gun to their head.

lowsound

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by dkhp124

Whoever has a good ear for sound, knows what kind of sound your band is going for, and has a respectful, humble approach towards all the instruments would make the best sound engineer regardless of which instrument he himself plays..

Well, of course... I'm talking generalities, not specifics. I'm also talking about the sound of the band as a whole. I think it's safe to say that any bass player with a bit of experience knows that the sound you like to hear yourself at and the sound that works best for the band and for the PA are two different things. I'm not talking about a sound guy that makes only the bassist or the guitarist or whomever sound good - that sound guy may be terrible. I'm talking about the sound guys with an even ear, with good technical knowledge, awho make the band sound good as a whole, accurately reproduce what we as a band are producing, and aren't the weak link in the process of getting the music to the audience.

It seems like whenever the sound guy sucks or has a bad ear for music, he's usually a guitarist or a drummer, or neither. It also seems like whenever the sound guy actually knows more about sound reinforcement or production then most of us in the band and has a great ear for what makes the band sound good as a whole, 9 out of 10 times, the guy is either a bass player or a keyboardist.

IME, two of the best sound guys I've met are both electric guitarists, one of them also being a vocalist. Another guy who is also great at doing sound doesn't play any instrument proficiently, but has an excellent ear, as well as training in audio engineering.

Any time a person has a biased approach to any aspect of the band (like that former guitarist gone sound guy in your post), he'd be limited in what he can do.

This is true, but I'm talking about generalities, not specifics... There's always exceptions to any rule, and I always give sound guys the benefit of the doubt first. It's a thankless job, and they're the last link between you and your sound and the audience.

The two best sound guys I've worked with that I can think of off the top of my head were guitarists. I can also think of a couple of sound guys who are terrible who happen to be bass players, and one guy who runs sound at a local bar is a phenomenal keyboardist, but a terrible sound guy.

When the sound is horrible, and the guy running the sound obviously hasn't a clue about what he's doing with the equipment and is baffled when you suggest running a frequency sweep for feedback or talk about gain structure, it seems like 9 out of 10 times the guy is a guitarist, or maybe a something else.

[ksandvik]

My curse of being a bass player is that I emphasize too much the bottom end in my productions :-).

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

It also seems like whenever the sound guy actually knows more about sound reinforcement or production then most of us in the band and has a great ear for what makes the band sound good as a whole, 9 out of 10 times, the guy is either a bass player or a keyboardist.
[...]
When the sound is horrible, and the guy running the sound obviously hasn't a clue about what he's doing with the equipment and is baffled when you suggest running a frequency sweep for feedback or talk about gain structure, it seems like 9 out of 10 times the guy is a guitarist, or maybe a something else.

I must emphatically disagree. I'm a little tired of the stereotyping and self-congratulatory tone of a lot of posts in here; not only are we bass players, but we're more technically astute, aesthetically aware, and better looking than those stinky guitar players.

People who are good at sound reinforcement engineering are those who have put the time and effort into learning the craft, learning to listen analytically, and gaining experience in driving a mixing board in real time. People who are bad at it are those who have not. Whether they are also bass players, guitarists, or auto mechanics is irrelevant.

[dj150888]

I've actually found that the best sound engineers I've met all play either multiple instruments or none at all, guitarists, bassists, drummers or singers all tend to favour "their" instrument a bit too heavily in the mix (in general).

Maybe the reason you find bass players best is because they're focussing a little too much on the bass and you like that, being another bass player, but do you think the audience enjoy it any more?

[D.A.R.K.]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

I read something in an old thread recently, where the poster said something to the effect that 80% of the studio producers he's met are also primarily or originally bass players. This hasn't been my experience exactly with producers. My experience is that they're a mixed bunch. However, the best ones seem to be either keyboardists or bassists in former lives.

With live sound engineering, which I'm more experienced with then studio engineering, they're again a mixed bag of people, but the (former) bassists are usually the best engineers and soundmen, followed not too distantly by keyboardists.

Guitarists seem to typically (although certainly not always) tend to be the worst, and drummers and singers following somewhere in between.

Recently, we had a gig where the sound guy was talking to the guitarist, and he said something like the following: "Don't worry, I'll make your guitar sound good. I'm a guitarist in [a local band], so I like them good and strong." I shivered, and rightly so. We had the worst of the worst of sound guys I've ever encountered for so many reasons.

Anyway, I honestly think that bassists have to listen more to the band as a whole, and therefore make better engineers since they're used to listening to things as a whole. I think keyboardists are generally trained to be more well rounded musicians and understand all the parts of music production and performance more, so they're more apt to be better engineers.

Thoughts?

yes.
ime many bass players go into production, and make some of the best quality producers and engineers due largely because of the necessity of the bass players role. throughout cultures and different genre, bass chair (be it sousaphone, upright, or guitarron, for example) is largely playing the same role, and in order to do that, you have to hear and support the parts and arrangements. and hold it down while others can exercise their egos.
it makes sense on so many levels...
i might have even made that original post you speak of, as that is my experience thus far (been touring internationally as a bassist/ engineer both for live and studio work for 20 years now).
in general though, i believe musicians (bass or not) make the best producers and engineers, for obvious reasons... they have (ideally, if they can play and hear) learned half of it already.
just my experience, though... enjoy the .02

[dkhp124]

Originally Posted by ggunn

I must emphatically disagree. I'm a little tired of the stereotyping and self-congratulatory tone of a lot of posts in here; not only are we bass players, but we're more technically astute, aesthetically aware, and better looking than those stinky guitar players.

People who are good at sound reinforcement engineering are those who have put the time and effort into learning the craft, learning to listen analytically, and gaining experience in driving a mixing board in real time. People who are bad at it are those who have not. Whether they are also bass players, guitarists, or auto mechanics is irrelevant.

+1 to everything you just said.

[Ubersheist]

Originally Posted by ggunn

I'm a little tired of the stereotyping and self-congratulatory tone of a lot of posts in here; not only are we bass players, but we're more technically astute, aesthetically aware, and better looking than those stinky guitar players.

First off, I'm making an observation. If I noticed that all the best bass players out there were over 7 feet tall, I'd pose the question "why are all the best bass players over 7 feet tall?" or something like that. We've been working in a handful of studios lately, and they all seem to be run by bass players. We've also been playing out a ton, and I noticed that the good sound guys were almost all bass players. Now, I'm asking why and if others found it to be true.

It's not directly self congratulatory if it's true. I'm only asking if this has been other people's experiences, because it has been mine.

Apparently, I am alone.

Originally Posted by ggunn

Whether they are also bass players, guitarists, or auto mechanics is irrelevant.

Of course... no one ever anywhere has ever suggested otherwise, so long as they have the training and put in the effort as you suggested. However, it's been my experience that mostly bassists and keyboardists seem to want to put in the effort, so somehow (if my theory is right), it might be relevant.

Originally Posted by dj150888

Maybe the reason you find bass players best is because they're focussing a little too much on the bass and you like that, being another bass player, but do you think the audience enjoy it any more?

Not true for me. I listen to the whole band first, then a distant second or third is how I happen to sound in the mix. I consider myself a musician first, with my role always (and I mean always) to make the band sound better as a whole.

A very good way to give yourself a glass ceiling for how far you can go as a bass player is to be overly concerned with how you sound personally and your bass tone rather then how you sound in the mix as a whole.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

First off, I'm making an observation. If I noticed that all the best bass players out there were over 7 feet tall, I'd pose the question "why are all the best bass players over 7 feet tall?"

Then I answered the question in your subject line with my first reply. It's just you. I can't speak to your observation, but I can speak to the generalization it implies. Even in your 7 foot bass player example, you'd have to observe all the bass players in the world (or at least a statistically significant sample thereof) for the generalization to be true. If all the good sound guys you know are bass players, IMO it's a coincidence and an artifact of your small sample size. I don't think that there is any cause and effect relationship between the two.