Is it just me, or are "funk" and "funky" the most misused and abused word on TB?

Ubersheist · #1 07-07-2009, 04:55 PM

So, I was reading a recent thread about "modern funk bassists," and I swear that at least 1/2 the bands and musicians listed on there weren't funk at all... Phish, Incubus, Rage, etc. It seems like whenever someone finds a bass player that's slapping or the guitar is playing a simple triad chord somewhere up above the 5th fret, lots of people think it's funk.

The one that always gets me is the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Don't get me wrong - they're a great rock band, and I have an immense amount of respect for Flea's playing, but they aren't funky (for the most part - some of their jam stuff did get pretty funky). They're certainly a "rock" band and not a "funk" band.

I now would like to offer up Exhibit A - "Higher Ground."

Here's The RHCP's version - very rockin', but not funky in my opinion.

Here's Stevie Wonder's version - far more funky (although I think some of his other stuff is even funkier)

It seems like whenever I bring this up, people start hounding on me. I swear, just about all of the stuff people pose to the board as "funk" usually has some element of funk, but it's not really all that funky.

To quote Will Farrell's character in "Zoolander:"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugatu

DOESN'T ANYONE NOTICE THIS?!?!? I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

Phil Smith · #2 07-07-2009, 05:28 PM

Ignorance sometimes has strength in numbers.

ugly_bassplayer · #3 07-07-2009, 05:38 PM

Labels have always fallen short to describe music.
I agree with you that the term funk is being used quite to often to describe a certain band or style.
But the term FUNK is quite broad itself, it is not something that is set in stone.
In my opinion debating what is and is not FUNK is like the stupid debate about what is and is not jazz.
As for your opinion on the RHCP, Mr Georges Clinton thought they where funky enough to work with them on an entire album, so what does that tell you.........
Leave that crap debate to the music critics.

Ubersheist · #4 07-07-2009, 06:21 PM

Just because a great funk artist wanted to make a record with a great rock band, it doesn't make the rock band 'funky' all of the sudden...

I agree that the term "funk" is broad, but not nearly as broad as the bands that the word's being applied to...

SpamBot · #5 07-07-2009, 06:22 PM

Part of the RHCP thing is that they have changed a lot since Freaky Styley.......

ugly_bassplayer · #6 07-07-2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

Just because a great funk artist wanted to make a record with a great rock band, it doesn't make the rock band 'funky' all of the sudden...

I agree that the term "funk" is broad, but not nearly as broad as the bands that the word's being applied to...

Again with the labels, just listen to Duke Ellington's comment on musical genres, 2 kinds of music Good & Bad.
By the way the term funk was around way before your definition of funk, it was used in the 50's to describe a certain type of jazz.
So what is funk??

Ubersheist · #7 07-07-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugly_bassplayer

Again with the labels, just listen to Duke Ellington's comment on musical genres, 2 kinds of music Good & Bad.
By the way the term funk was around way before your definition of funk, it was used in the 50's to describe a certain type of jazz.
So what is funk??

What's inherently wrong with labels, so long as they're not entirely lived by? It's human nature to label and categorize almost everything. I say, either join 'em or live alone in the Australian Outback.

Secondly, I'll bet that someone fighting in the war of 1812 described whatever was growing in their boots as "funk," so just because it was used in the '50s doesn't mean much to me. In fact, I believe that "funk" as a genre didn't really develop into a true genre until about the early 1970s. Sly and the Family Stone (late 60s-early '70s) were sort of precursors, but still more R&B-ish then "funky" in my book. Based on the early 1970s as a starting point for "funk," the way that people in the 1950s used the word to describe some jazz music means even less to me.

As far as what "funk" is, I try to figure out what some of the masters (George Clinton, Bootsie, Meshell N'deggiocello, Bernard Edwards, Quincy Jones, etc.) might say or consider to be funky. Then, I go from there.

(BTW, I'm sure that there's some quote of George Clinton or some other funk heavy calling Metallica or some other non-funky band "funk." Please spare us all with that nonesense.)

If it makes me want to get up and dance, it's probably funky, too. Red Hot Chili Peppers usually just makes me want to vigorously jump up an down and/or break things, which is all fine good, but not "funk."

ugly_bassplayer · #8 07-07-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubersheist

. Sly and the Family Stone (late 60s-early '70s) were sort of precursors, but still more R&B-ish then "funky" in my book.

Talk about splitting hairs.
To me Sly is pure funk Goodness.

CharlieDog · #9 07-07-2009, 07:15 PM

Funky Monks is pure funk.

phxlbrmpf · #10 07-08-2009, 03:49 AM

I'm not sure but while the above bands aren't really funk bands per se, they do have funk influences in their songs, for examples in the rhythms and bass lines they use. Like them or not, but RHCP have always been heavily funk-influenced and created something like a funk/rock style blend. I do agree that they've been becoming gradually less funky and more "rock-y", though.

While we're talking about the "Higher Ground" cover: the RHCP has a bass line you might play in a funk song and one of the guitar tracks does the "chirpy" funk guitar thing, while the durm beat is pretty much straight rock. Plus, the band added a downright punk rock-ish outro as a reminder that they've always been into punk as well. But still, the funk elements are definitely there, but they're not as pronounced as in a "true" funk song.

**Josh Ryan** · #11 07-08-2009, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ugly_bassplayer

Again with the labels, just listen to Duke Ellington's comment on musical genres, 2 kinds of music Good & Bad.
By the way the term funk was around way before your definition of funk, it was used in the 50's to describe a certain type of jazz.
So what is funk??

^ this.

OTOH- Seems like with time definitions change pretty radically as well as expand and contract. Is RHCP technically a funk band, of course not, do they have elements at times or show influence of funk? I think the argument could be made that they do. It's all about where you draw the line, if you want to really be precise with labels.

Jared Lash · #12 07-08-2009, 06:41 AM

In general I agree with your premise - I've seen guys talk about playing funk and then proceed to give a poor man's version of a NAMM-style slapfest. Lightning fast slap riffs aren't funk. Every bassline that grooves isn't funk (Phish, RATM etc).

But while RHCP aren't strictly a funk band, they aren't strictly a "rock" band either. Early on their whole concept was fusing punk and funk. And even with Frusciante expanding the palette (to the band's detriment in some cases IMO) Flea IS a funky bass player and demonstrates that when the song calls for it.

Or would you consider this a "rock" bassline (after the intro)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOErjCnBNE4

And there's dozens of other examples. Not strictly a funk player but musical genres, if they have any value, can't be black and white.

**baba** · #13 07-08-2009, 07:40 AM

There's a big difference between a funk band and a funky band. The latter covers many bands that have elements of funk as part of their recipe. Out of the bands you listed, I'd say that RHCP, Rage, and a small few of Phish's tunes are indeed funky

Otso · #14 07-08-2009, 09:00 AM

Funk isn't a genre of music, it's a state of mind.

**baba** · #15 07-08-2009, 09:03 AM

Funk is its own reward.

rfclef · #16 07-08-2009, 11:48 AM

WHat a funky name for a funkified concept of a funky funk thread.

Funk.

jmccain · #17 07-08-2009, 12:07 PM

> Is it just me, or are "funk" and "funky" the most misused and abused word on TB?

No, it's "butter" / "butta"

unclekebm · #18 07-08-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otso

Funk isn't a genre of music, it's a state of mind.

+1 and a feeling
You can take any song and; Funkify it
or Rock it, Punk it, make it Bluesy, Jazz it up, Get Iree with it, etc...

Just listen to all the different versions of "Standards" out there

IMO, classifications and genres are just to get marketers close to their target...
there must be hundreds of 'Sub Genres' out there

I guess if a Band stays true to pure Funk then they can be called a 'Funk' band
otherwise they could be a 'Funky' band if they're, say a 'Rock' band getting "Funky"

But, I believe You either got the Funk or You don't, "you can't fake the funk"

groooooove · #19 07-08-2009, 12:14 PM

a lot of people do misuse the terms. its because theyre never been slammed by REAL funk.

dumpstaphunk, james brown, deep banana blackout, obviously all the classic P-funk records, lettuce, soulive, the meters/neville brothers, ext ext. is IMO what the funk is all about.

the chili peppers could get funky. i dont consider them a funk band, though. (especially anything after blood sugar, wich was from what, 1994?).

Ubersheist · #20 07-08-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by groooooove

a lot of people do misuse the terms. its because theyre never been slammed by REAL funk.

That's kinda my thoughts... Many who use the term "funk" don't really know what it is. Itseems to be one of those things that are sort of those "if you don't know what it is, then there's no way I can describe it to you" sort of thing.