kiss: a joke or the real deal?

zongeek · #1 02-06-2005, 10:05 PM

so im listening to kiss today and i thinks to myself, "keith, theyve got some good stuff." but then it occurs to me there are/were all those rumors that its not them doing it. that its all studio musicians and what not. i mean they can obviously play some of it, they do it live. and the vocals sound like them. just curious what yall think?

Joe P · #2 02-06-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zongeek

...there are/were all those rumors that its not them doing it. that its all studio musicians and what not....

One of the only things I remember from my witnessing a live KISS concert in - uhh... '78 or '79? The stage setup looked like a mountain or vocano or something.. and a mirror ball split in half, and dumped out KISS Army patches (Judas Preist opened for them, and they SLAYED!!) - was that Gene Simmon's bass solo was obviously finger-synched, and very poorly at that!

(J. Preist just KILLED though!)

lefty · #3 02-06-2005, 10:48 PM

if those were payed studio musicians they got ripped off! naw kiss never really had too many good songs. only a few decent rock songs for their time. their live act is what made them big in their day. just my 2 cents

Finger Blister · #4 02-07-2005, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zongeek

what yall think?

Think their Clowns whose main focus is marketing an image.
Music comes second.
Even they admit that much.
So exactly how good could they possibily be?
Generic at best.

**cheezewiz** · #5 02-07-2005, 02:45 AM

I think I remember reading somewhere that Bob Ezrin had to play the bass part to Detroit Rock City because Gene couldn't do the quick little runs in the verses.

Finger Blister · #6 02-07-2005, 02:58 AM

For a KISS 'reunion'

I heard Ace forgot how to play and had to be taught
his own riffs from a guy who was in a KISS tribute band.

Dude didn't even have a guitar 'cause he sold 'em all.

Razor · #7 02-07-2005, 03:02 AM

Never got into the whole "KISS" thing...their music absolutely doesn't do it for me and the make-up just screams "Dumb Gimmick" to me...

However.....
I basically got dragged to a show on one of their recent tours and I must say...it's a good show. Lots of SHOW was all though. Hey, more power to them since I guess the gimmick worked for em'.

Black Sabbath on the other hand.....

Perfect-Tommy · #8 02-07-2005, 03:19 AM

I only like one or two of their songs. I think that they're a bunch of wankers, especially Gene. I mean, anyone that openly admits that they only did it for the money and women should be beatten with a bar of soap tucked into a sock...

But Detroit Rock City still makes my ass shake...

Bard2dbone · #9 02-07-2005, 05:08 AM

Oh come on. You didn't get into playing in a band originally just for the girls? I sure did. It didn't help as much as I had hoped, though. And fortunately I discovered I loved playing enough that it was worth it. But originally? Oh yeah. I was all about the " Hey. I'm in a band. Want to lick my entire body?* " thing

*Actually heard someone say this, once...and it worked. Amazing.

Razor · #10 02-07-2005, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

Oh come on. You didn't get into playing in a band originally just for the girls? I sure did. It didn't help as much as I had hoped, though. And fortunately I discovered I loved playing enough that it was worth it. But originally? Oh yeah. I was all about the " Hey. I'm in a band. Want to lick my entire body?* " thing

*Actually heard someone say this, once...and it worked. Amazing.

Somehow I don't think Paul Stanley was looking much towards the female persuasion for this kinda response....

zongeek · #11 02-07-2005, 07:35 AM

the gimmick and all the "we did it for money and ladies" thing i know. yea that sucks but what are you gonna do. i was just curious about if they did or didnt play their own instruments. i really do wonder about how much they payed the people who did to be quiet. youve got to wonder....

Razor · #12 02-07-2005, 07:40 AM

Yeah, I've heard all kinds of speculation and even rumors about XYZ member of the group saying they had studio guys come in... I'm sure someone on here is more of a fan than I am and can shed some light...and I seem to remember this being brought up on TB before but dunno if there were ever any concrete facts... didn't mean to derail the thread.

**MAJOR METAL** · #13 02-07-2005, 08:07 AM

I would be inclined to say they are a joke. Just a side note i saw a MTV special on Rock Stars homes and i was really kind of supprised that i didint see one musical instrument of any kind not even one bass in his home.

fr0me0 · #14 02-07-2005, 08:33 AM

while i don't mind kiss (I don't listen to them every day or anything but they do have some fun stuff) if they could not record that material that is pretty sad its not like its dream theater meets michael angelo or anything.

brianrost · #15 02-07-2005, 09:48 AM

One listen to the first three Kiss albums will tell you that they played their own stuff. What studio musicians would sound that hamfisted?

neilslorance · #16 02-07-2005, 10:00 AM

does anyone else think theyve got the shady attitude of a rap band? i.e money and girls etc.
i remember reading an interview with gene and him saying that his signature bass cos about $100 to make even tho it was sold at about $1000,

i could be wrong tho

Slater · #17 02-07-2005, 10:26 AM

The band Kiss is what it is. They're a group of guys that decided to put on a musical show and come up with some Rock-N-Roll songs that fit that format. They just wanted to make sure you got your money's worth when you bought a concert ticket. That "gimmick" worked, and they got rich!

It's obvious that when they first started recording, it wouldn't make sense to pay studio musicians to play their parts because they weren't established yet, and they didn't have a reputation to uphold.

Later they did have studio musicians record on their albums, and some of them became band members - Vinnie Vincent, Mark St. John, and Bruce Kulic.

I personally liked thier first album a lot, and I think it has some tasty, fun-to-play basslines on songs like, 100,000 Years, and Black Diamond. YMMV

The Golden Boy · #18 02-07-2005, 10:53 AM

I enjoy KISS. They've got more than a few good songs and put on a really great show. Regardless of anybody wishing to talk down Simmons, those bass lines suit the songs perfectly. (Ace's solos on the other hand...

) If you don't like KISS, fine. If you don't like their image, fine. If you personally find their attitudes crass, disgusting or just plain dumb- fine. It doesn't take away from the fact that they put out some pretty good rock and roll songs in their day. Remember that a song doesn't need to be difficult to be good.

I believe they played their own stuff. There may have been session musicians doing some things, as far as paying to keep things quiet- that's part of the session musician's job. From what I'm aware of, a lot of mid 60's bands used session musicians- the Who, the Kinks, the Animals... While you think you're listening to Townshend or Dave Davies, you're listening to Big Jim Sullivan or Little Jim Page playing guitar...

chris4001asat · #19 02-07-2005, 11:01 AM

Hey Golden Boy, I like the Replacements lyric at the bottom of your post. It will now be going through my head the rest of the day. Not that it's a bad thinhg mind you!

jive1 · #20 02-07-2005, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

I enjoy KISS. They've got more than a few good songs and put on a really great show. Regardless of anybody wishing to talk down Simmons, those bass lines suit the songs perfectly. (Ace's solos on the other hand...

) If you don't like KISS, fine. If you don't like their image, fine. If you personally find their attitudes crass, disgusting or just plain dumb- fine. It doesn't take away from the fact that they put out some pretty good rock and roll songs in their day. Remember that a song doesn't need to be difficult to be good.

I believe they played their own stuff. There may have been session musicians doing some things, as far as paying to keep things quiet- that's part of the session musician's job. From what I'm aware of, a lot of mid 60's bands used session musicians- the Who, the Kinks, the Animals... While you think you're listening to Townshend or Dave Davies, you're listening to Big Jim Sullivan or Little Jim Page playing guitar...

Great words cheesehead!

Let's not forget that Eric Clapton and Jimmy Page played on Beatles records too.

As a member of the Kiss Army, I have to say is that they do well is put on a show. I don't think anyone considered themselves virtuoso musicians or tryed to play themselves off as such. I saw Kiss and it was the best show ever. I'm not just talking concerts, I'm including movies, theatre, etc. Kiss plain out rocked, and we got our money's worth. And from what I have seen, Kiss puts out more effort into their live act than anyone.

Kiss is sort of the opposite of Steely Dan. Steely Dan consisted of complex songs and great musicianship sans the live show. Whereas kiss was simple musicianship and songwriting, and one hell of a performance.

You could hate all you want, but in terms of financial and marketing success, it's hard to top Kiss. And like many of our favorite bands, it was without the endorsement of music critics or mainstream media. Kiss has outlasted it's critics, and that's all that needs to be said.

Kiss is a great case study in music marketing and business. I recommend the book Kiss and Sell to anyone who wants some ideas on how to market the band. Though you might not want to cop Gene Simmons' bass licks, their implementation of basic business concepts is something worth looking into.

As far as a band, they do like their fans. They were one of the few major acts back in the day that would play smaller markets like Peoria, IL or Grand Rapids, MI. I don't think you can say that about much of the Arena bands of today.

Read any interviews with Paul Stanley or Gene Simmons, you'll get words of thanks and appreciation, not whining and complaining like some other bands. They're happy to be where they got to. I wish I could say that about others who break up bands or commit suicide because they couldn't handle fame. As a working musician with aspirations, I'd rather listen to guys who are having fun doing what they are doing instead of some performer who basically tells you that what you are aspiring to is meaningless and worthless, since they whine to anyone that will listen once they get famous.