Kissing Lots of Frogs & age discrmination: Auditions

[P. Aaron]

It goes on & on. A good drummer here, a non-existent guitar player here, the lagging lifeless drummer here, the fork in the garbage disposal tone guitar player there.

Encountered a good singer on my C & W audition last night. She & I carried the band.

Here's s CL reply I received for an ad I posted as a Bassist:

My name is Jeff am I'm a 33 yr old professional electric cellist/guitarist and am starting an original rock band with members from ages 21-35. I saw your posting in Craigslist. I have one of the best drummers in town and one of the best, professionally-trained 23 year old male vocalists ready to start. All we need is a 5-string bassist and we're ready to go. I play the electric cello like a classical cello and like Jimi Hendrix/Tom Morello on guitar with a ton of distortion, chorus, flanger, wah, delay and reverb. I graduated with a cello performance degree from Wayne State but classical wasn't my thing. I also am an accomplished guitarist but I wanted to do something different, so I bought an electric cello and made a name for myself. If you want to hear the kind of music that I play and write, go to [snip] and disregard the rap. The music on the website is all electric cello and I wrote most of it. Here are other tracks to check out...

The reason why we need a 5 string bass is because the electric cello is tuned in 5ths with C being it's lowest note (C, G, D, A). Unfortunately, this note is the same exact note as the lowest C on a 4 string bass which makes the two instruments collide. The 5 string can get an octave below and play a true bass's role. If you go to [snip] and listen to the 4 tracks, I wrote and played the bass on all of those tracks and you'll hear how the 5 string gets below and stands out.

We're very serious and I've got a ton of contacts. Call or email me and we'll talk music. I'd like to hear what you're doing.

Here's the reply I sent Jeff:

Jeff,

We already talked on the phone and because I am 50, you told me no way. Ambition, desire and ability aside (I also get spam from the AARP), music is the one arena where age discrmination can run rampant with no consequence.

As far as 'looks or appreances go', I saw your you-tube clips and I am prettier than some of those guys you were taped with...much prettier.

So, try again, or send me sound clips, a set list and don't tell your band mates.
I am a good-looking 50, and would possibly in appearance, give many younger people a run for their own vanity. Believe me, I enjoy this Dorian Gray allotment of genetic gold.

I make no apologies for the caustic content. I have been kissing a lot of frogs auditioning out here. I learn their tunes to the 9's, have everything these acts say they need and they don't call back. Being annoyed that I could out-play their drummer & guitar players on their own instruments, well, that's another story.

P. Aaron

[kesslari]

What did you say, Grandpa?

Sigh. I'm your age and demographic. Have been lucky so far in landing bands.
Hang in there, and good luck with it.

[dwm74]

I feel your pain. Having just turned 49 a few days ago, it's getting harder and harder to find openings for metal/hard rock bassists that will even consider someone over 30 or 35.
But I'm still keeping hope alive...

[JimK]

...and sometimes it goes the other way-
When you're deemed "too young" (or even "too young-looking")...you may get passed over for gigs. That has happened to me...and I have had someone hang up the phone when I said I was 35. LMAO.

Your Craiglist friend wants a 21-35 year old, huh?
By those specifics, he woulda passed on someone like Oteil Burbridge...who gigged around here when he was 19-20...and who was killin' it.

[Jim Campbell]

Originally Posted by P. Aaron

It goes on & on. A good drummer here, a non-existent guitar player here, the lagging lifeless drummer here, the fork in the garbage disposal tone guitar player there.

Encountered a good singer on my C & W audition last night. She & I carried the band.

Here's s CL reply I received for an ad I posted as a Bassist:



Here's the reply I sent Jeff:

Jeff,

We already talked on the phone and because I am 50, you told me no way. Ambition, desire and ability aside (I also get spam from the AARP), music is the one arena where age discrmination can run rampant with no consequence.

As far as 'looks or appreances go', I saw your you-tube clips and I am prettier than some of those guys you were taped with...much prettier.

So, try again, or send me sound clips, a set list and don't tell your band mates.
I am a good-looking 50, and would possibly in appearance, give many younger people a run for their own vanity. Believe me, I enjoy this Dorian Gray allotment of genetic gold.

I make no apologies for the caustic content. I have been kissing a lot of frogs auditioning out here. I learn their tunes to the 9's, have everything these acts say they need and they don't call back. Being annoyed that I could out-play their drummer & guitar players on their own instruments, well, that's another story.

P. Aaron

while it may satisfy to take someone like that down a peg or two,it may not be the best strategy if your goal is playing.....he might be a so and so but someone he knows might be the guy for your next project.....ya never know.....

[BigOldHarry]

being old can suck. Good for you for slapping that guy down.

[DanNowhere]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

while it may satisfy to take someone like that down a peg or two,it may not be the best strategy if your goal is playing.....he might be a so and so but someone he knows might be the guy for your next project.....ya never know.....

The guy claims to play electric cello like Jimi Hendrix and Tom Morello. I can smell the vinegar and water from here. This guy wouldn't be right for any project I can think of.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by DanNowhere

The guy claims to play electric cello like Jimi Hendrix and Tom Morello. I can smell the vinegar and water from here. This guy wouldn't be right for any project I can think of.

lol

Electric Cello - that's amusing enough for me!

[HeadyVan Halen]

Stay away form anybody who says they play like Jimi...oh, they may play some of his licks, but they don't play like Jimi.

Electric cello with distortion? Nice.

Who helped you type your message and hit send because 50 is way to old to do that!!

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by HeadyVan Halen

Who helped you type your message and hit send because 50 is way to old to do that!!

True. It's a well known fact that folks over 49 are unable to navigate even the simplest computer commands. Never mind that the folks who invented the internet, PCs and smart phones are all over 49 now...

[SlingBass4]

You're too kind (judging from his initial response), as I wouldn't care to deal with that kind of mentality...but that's just me

[chadds]

When we were in our teens to be able to play with some "old heads" was a great honor.
They had experience, chops, and didn't take themselves so seriously.

[Randall]

Put your age in your ad and you will reduce the "young guys who think old guys suck" bs.

[subject42]

As someone who's on the young/old cusp, I really don't understand why anyone would turn away an older musician.

Most musicians aren't very far from "average" in terms of their skill. If that's the case, and musicians rarely get worse over time without outside influences like drugs, it would imply that experienced (and therefore generally older) players should be a hot commodity.

Are a lot of the hotter "scenes" really so image conscious?

[DanNowhere]

The thing to keep in mind about about "scenes" is, no matter what the city, the really good bands are either busy recording or out on tour selling records, so the scene bands playing around town are the mediocre guys who arent' going anywhere.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by Jim Campbell

while it may satisfy to take someone like that down a peg or two,it may not be the best strategy if your goal is playing.....he might be a so and so but someone he knows might be the guy for your next project.....ya never know.....

I had a phone conversation with this guy prior to his 2nd reply to my CL ad. I also sent a very detailed e-mail that prompted him to call me the first time.

Once he learned my age, all the experience, appearance, gear ready, drug-free reliability went out the window. He was dismissive of all that.

Let him continue to look or eat crow. When he mentions Jimi & fusion music (how long ago was that?). Well you need someone who's listener & student of that kind of genre.

Just because he's sawin' away on a cello that a few find novel, does it get the crowd to dance? Will it give Carrie Underwood nightmares about the possibility of loss of market share?

Believe me, Iwanted to try out, and I went for the appointment. 'Cause an act like that NEEDS a good backup band to keep it steady I saw that as the challenge.

But I am too old...for him. So it goes.

[pbass888]

stanley clarke, jeff berlin, freddie washington, louis johnson paul mcartney,.... tooo old.... besides in 24 months this guy will have to quit his own band due to age restrictions.

"The reason we need a five" tells you a lot about his musical knowledge. You deserve way better bro.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by pbass888

stanley clarke, jeff berlin, freddie washington, louis johnson paul mcartney,.... tooo old.... besides in 24 months this guy will have to quit his own band due to age restrictions.

"The reason we need a five" tells you a lot about his musical knowledge. You deserve way better bro.

I found that little educational tidbit a bit presumtuous as well but I let it slide when I spoke to him on the phone as well as in my reply.

A band chocked w/20 year olds wanting to have a go of it, I understand completely why they would not want to have their 'Dad' on bass.

Folks in their 30's+ still giggin the same haunts...by that time one would think that they would want steady, competent musicians first of all to keep them looking good & confident onstage.

[Deluge Of Sound]

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by HeadyVan Halen

Who helped you type your message and hit send because 50 is way to old to do that!!

Ahem! You mean way too old don't you?

I have been here at TalkBass since 2002. I've learned a few things in that time.