Let's talk about unions

[So Low Bass]

There are a wide variety of ages, abilities, and experiences on this board. I just read a long post by a young man who wants a career in the studio. There were some fine responses, some from (so it appears) experienced pros, but the topic of the musicians’ union is never brought up.

I have never seen the union world brought up on this board. Let’s talk about it. How much are your local dues, and work dues? What are the hourly rates, mileage, and cartage figures in your local. Where can you play and not play? When do you HAVE to join the union? When is joining a disadvantage? What non-local surcharges to members pay to other locals?

[hdracer]

There have been a lot of threads about them. They just get shut down fast. To political.

This should be in Miscellaneous.

[So Low Bass]

The young man who wants a studio career won't look there. The hourly radio rate in Baltimore is $97 (or whatever) and there in one sharp in the key of "G". That's not politics, it's information and this information is certainly not miscellaneous to pros in NYC recording or broadcast studios. It's their bread AND butter.

[sammyp]

the union is meaningless and almost non existant in my province in canada ...NB ...not so in other provinces though....

[ryco]

I was in the Seattle AFofM in the mid '70s. had to be if a band wanted to play in Washington State schools.
I wasn't all that impressed - at that level anyway. Anytime a band member got into trouble the Union tended to side with the club. Which makes sense in a way - bands/musicians come and go, rooms stay around longer and are the money resource.
Washington at that time didn't have a strong Musicians Union. Not many studios and most clubs were non Union. The Unions were way stronger in NY, LA, Las Vegas, nashville - places where there was a lot of big name studios, big time artists and entertainers using bigger pit bands. In these areas I think it was dang near mandatory you had to be a Union member.

[One Bad Monkey]

I just resigned from my local chapter of the AFM. I found that it really did nothing for me, except act as a write-off of my yearly dues.

We have four performing theatres in town, and three equity houses in the vicinity. None are union houses. The only real union gig in town is the symphony, so it should be no surprise that their main membership is with that, and that their main focus lies there.

I've talked with some of the board members in an effort to help raise the bar in town, but they seemed more willing to run into those places and demand more money upfront, without confronting some of the issues that theatres are having with the unprofessionalism of musicians, many of which are from the local university. If the AFM is also geared toward education of the rising musician population, I was surprised that my local didn't do anything about this. It sounds like they're starting to look into it, which is promising.

[Ayce]

Originally Posted by sammyp

the union is meaningless and almost non existant in my province in canada ...NB ...not so in other provinces though....

What ever happened to the NBMIA?

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey

I just resigned from my local chapter of the AFM. I found that it really did nothing for me, except act as a write-off of my yearly dues.

The only real union gig in town is the symphony, so it should be no surprise that their main membership is with that, and that their main focus lies there.

I've heard sort of the same thing about the Union here in Denver. I'm looking into getting into pit orchestras for musicals and have been told that you do have to be a member of the Union for a couple of the theaters here. So after happening on this thread, I sent for the information packet to see.

Out of curiosity, what were your yearly dues? I didn't see anything on the Denver Musicians Union site about it, seems they want you to sign up to get the informational packet. lol

5sg.

[colcifer]

IBTL!

[One Bad Monkey]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

I've heard sort of the same thing about the Union here in Denver. I'm looking into getting into pit orchestras for musicals and have been told that you do have to be a member of the Union for a couple of the theaters here. So after happening on this thread, I sent for the information packet to see.

Just as a recommendation, I wouldn't join the union right away if you're just getting into theatre work. If Denver is anything like my area, the MDs for shows are going to hire people they already know before looking at a union list to "fill in the gaps," and most of the time will probably go with personal recommendations over anything else.

Once you get in with some bassists and some MDs, then I'd probably take the time to see what else the union can do to benefit you, because as it sits, you can still play in a union theatre but you won't get union scale.

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

Out of curiosity, what were your yearly dues? I didn't see anything on the Denver Musicians Union site about it, seems they want you to sign up to get the informational packet. loll

It varies a lot from local to local, but ours were a very modest $90 a year, with a one-time $35 registration fee.

[fivestringgecko]

I agree with you, I won't join right away... I'm just looking into it at the moment. It's not so much that I'm worried about the musical directors, it's more that a couple of the theaters here require you to be part of the union. The guitarist for my church has been part of a Christmas show for years at the most prominent one and he has to get special written accommodation every year so he can do it. (Apparently he was grandfathered in like 25 years ago).

Thanks for the info though. I'm not too worried about how much I get paid, so not making union scale isn't that big of a deal to me (unless it's a huge difference of course ). I'm more interested in the rules about union/non-union and being allowed to play. I'll definitely do some more exploration into the details.

5sg.

[P. Aaron]

My step dad used to go club to club in the 60's checking for musician's cards. By the late 70's, there were few union gigs going...in the club, private party-wedding circuit in metro Detroit.

The Detroit Symphony recently ended a bitter and lengthy strike over pay last year. The DSO is the only time in many years where I have heard the word 'union' and musician put together.

With the exception of tickets sales, the DSO and Orchestra Hall, where they perform is supported largely, if not mostly by the graces of charitable donations.

If it works for them...

[One Bad Monkey]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

It's not so much that I'm worried about the musical directors, it's more that a couple of the theaters here require you to be part of the union.

It might be how the contract with the union is. The one union house I played at had a 2/1 union/non-union ratio that the pit had to meet or get fined.

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

Thanks for the info though. I'm not too worried about how much I get paid, so not making union scale isn't that big of a deal to me (unless it's a huge difference of course ). I'm more interested in the rules about union/non-union and being allowed to play. I'll definitely do some more exploration into the details.

5sg.

Pay is all subjective on the area. We get people that have moved from Chicago and gripe about the pay here, and you have to smack them upside the head. Of course we're not going to get the kind of money you make in Chicago; this is a comparatively small town.

I know that our Local didn't care that their members did non-union gigs, but from what I've been told, some Locals require you to pay a percentage of the non-union gig to them, or won't allow it altogether. I would guess it depends more on their influence in town.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by One Bad Monkey

I know that our Local didn't care that their members did non-union gigs, but from what I've been told, some Locals require you to pay a percentage of the non-union gig to them, or won't allow it altogether.

Huh. So if I join the union, I could potentially be shooting myself in the foot (depending on rules of course)? I do some freelance stuff on occasion and the people I freelance with have become good friends. I wouldn't want to have to give up working with them just because some rule says I can't do non-union gigs.

Thanks again for the tips on stuff to research! More food for thought.

5sg.