Looking for some life advice from professional musicians in Europe

[paxrvr]

Originally Posted by dalkowski

IMO, that's a disproportionately aggressive solution.

Well like I said, this is nowhere near a definite plan. I'm just looking at my options.

[jandscotten]

Originally Posted by paxrvr

I haven't really considered Canada since I don't know too much about it. I've felt a stronger calling to England specifically because they have a strong history of wonderful music and I love British culture. Not to mention they have acknowledged the importance of music education in schools and are funding their programs, which IMO would be a very big plus if I ever have kids. I've also studied German for 7 years and have a similar affinity to Deutschland, although I'm not as familiar with their music scene.

Not sure about the other provinces, or even if this is province wide, but music is a mandatory class here through Middle School. I like the music scene here as well. As for British culture, I hear you get that in the Maritimes some??? Here, where I am, it's very, very Ukrainian and a sprinkling of German. LOTS of Polka music in the Swan Valley

I want to add that you are smart to...1) look at this at your age now, having a daughter that did not immigrate has created some challenges, 2) take your time. immigrating to a new country (yes especially with full on citizenship change, we're working towards dual citizenship) is a huge, emotional and physical, endevor. If you want to talk more about it why not PM me.

From a music standpoint: It may be interesting, but one of the results of my immigrating to Canada actually was my reignited love of bass playing after a 20+ year absence. I bought my first new, new bass here.

[caligula]

My 2 cents.
I can only speak for my area, in other parts of Germany things might be slightly (but only slightly) different.
I've been gigging and teaching bass for a number of years now. At first full time, currently part time as I reentered uni some years ago.
There's no studio scene here like probably in Nashville, L.A., or NYC, no chance to make a living as a studio bassist. You can make a living as a bassist, though. I've financed myself that way for many years. If you're a decent player, know how to read, hold your time, know different styles & techniques, perhaps sing (backup and/or lead), there's work. As a matter of fact, I know quite a few people who can't do any of the above decently and they make money. However, I wouldn't count on that of course.
Many people teach 1-2 days a week, play with several bands, sometimes go on tour with musical shows, play with theater productions, etc.

You would need some cash to keep you alive for a few months because it would definitely take time to find a (or several) bands, music schools, etc.
As someone mentioned, you could consider teaching English as a part time thing.
There's a huge (!!) market for qualified English teachers here.
However, being a native speaker alone is probably not enough. Most education centers & private institutions want to see some kind of degree (this here is common:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CELTA).
There's quite a number of people from the US here. I played 2 shows with a guy originally from CAL last week, unfortunately non-paid shows.
You find Americans in every bigger city here and even in the smaller ones.
Maybe this is a starting point: there are some US people who live in Germany and have a YT channel, search the tube and get in touch with them.

[chop_1992]

Originally Posted by caligula

Many people teach 1-2 days a week, play with several bands, sometimes go on tour with musical shows, play with theater productions, etc..

Caligula sums up a pretty common career profile that I see in younger players here in Germany, which also mirrors the US scene. So, you can play Wicked or Cats, or do weddings, or teach lessons, or play jazz gigs either in the US or in Europe. The scenes have basic differences, which I talk about in this interview. But musicians everywhere are still making a living one note at a time.

You can't just move here to Germany, or to any foreign country without either a job contract, a spouse who is a citizen here, or acceptance at a College/Uni as a student. (One exception: if you have unlimited funds and can afford to live anywhere without ever working, then a lot of countries will gladly welcome you. If this is the case, you should not bother to read this post!).

If you're not in school, or you don't have a job contract, you're limited to a 90-day stay as a tourist. If you're a non-EU student and you are accepted at a German Hochschule or University, you can get a student visa for the time you are studying. But you have to show that you have enough funds in reserve to live on while you are here studying. The public universities only cost €500 per semester, but you have to have a place to live and show enough savings in the bank. You also have to show a moderate proficiency in German. In England and other EU countries I think the immigration standards are similar.

Regarding giving up your US citizenship and becoming a citizen in Germany: the process usually takes years, and it's too complicated to get into here. Most musicians working here have a work permit: either temporary, or if they fulfill certain requirements, permanent (like a Green Card in the US).

Finally I would say that if you can't find a good bass teacher in the Indiana/Kentucky/Ohio/Chicago area, then you are not looking very hard, or you have odd requirements for what you think a "good" teacher should be. I can think of a pretty long list of great teachers in your area. (Yes, you might have to drive to Chicago, or Indy, or Cincinnati, or Louisville once a month for your lesson . . . but that's closer than England or Germany). Good luck to you.

[manfish]

Hi, I did exactly what youre talking about. I moved to London and was very fortunate. I had many "I could die happy now" moments and even played bass for Paul McCartney. But the industry was different. I moved back to L.A. a few years ago and I dont see much difference in the two scenes. Only 1 in 100 (or something) musicians make a living from music. Living in another country was fantastic but staying in LA might have been better careerwise. Theres LA NY London and Nashville plus a few pockets like Austin, Altlanta etc.. when a town breaks like Seatle or Manchester in the 90s. Every country has its scene (often cheesy). I worked alot in France. The assholes that run the world have been corrupt for some time but that has given us some of our best music as well so running away may not be the only option. My advice is to find a band that you love and be a writer. Being a hired musician is ok if youre A or at least B list but its royalties that count. Have you seen Standing in the Shadows of Motown and Wrecking Crew? Good luck! P&L! Steve

[AnchorHoy]

I've looked into this myself, in detail. It's not an easy process.....

Originally Posted by topo morto

How would you work out the whole visa thing?

This is the biggest obstacle you will need to overcome

Originally Posted by chop_1992

You can't just move here to Germany, or to any foreign country without either a job contract, a spouse who is a citizen here, or acceptance at a College/Uni as a student. (One exception: if you have unlimited funds and can afford to live anywhere without ever working, then a lot of countries will gladly welcome you. If this is the case, you should not bother to read this post!).

If you're not in school, or you don't have a job contract, you're limited to a 90-day stay as a tourist. If you're a non-EU student and you are accepted at a German Hochschule or University, you can get a student visa for the time you are studying. But you have to show that you have enough funds in reserve to live on while you are here studying. The public universities only cost €500 per semester, but you have to have a place to live and show enough savings in the bank. You also have to show a moderate proficiency in German. In England and other EU countries I think the immigration standards are similar

This is pretty much the story all across the EU, plus the UK, Australia, and Japan. Also note that many countries specifically prohibit you from working in any way shape or form while holding only a tourist visa. Getting caught working for money can easily get you arrested and deported unless you have the proper visa to allow that. Japan is especially strict about this

What you want to do is not impossible, but you must have all of your ducks in a row before you ever cross the border. That includes a firm job offer - in writing - from an employer inside the country to which you will be moving, which will in turn make it possible to apply for a work visa. Be aware that in most cases a work visa is tied to that employer - lose the job and you automatically lose your work visa. Also be aware that some countries will not allow you to change your visa type from tourist to working without leaving said country and applying for the change from outside their borders

Serious research will be neccessary, here.....

[MontzterMash]

Hi!

Grew up in the Midwest, and lived abroad for a bit, and think it's a great thing to take the leap. It's one few take, and you've already jumped the hurdle that trips most up: you're actively thinking about it.

That said, as others said, it's often not a light or quick move. As pointed out, you definitely should get a job or college lined up. First off, that gets you those necessary papers, but also, changing countries can be pretty jarring, and it's great to have a safe base when you're there.

Then, things work a lot better when you know the language fairly well before going. I've met plenty abroad who figured they'd "learn when they get there" and they never do, and stay stuck in expat circles. Once we're at a certain level, like your German is now, where native speakers are able to talk with us, then the learning comes a lot quicker.

Then there's the whole getting a job in music ... that I know nothing of, except that it seems hard even on ones home turf. Switching to a new and risky career in a new place seems like unnecessarily long odds to me. A smoother bet seems to either start working in music in the US (Chicago?), then move once you've got the hang of it; or move there with another job that you can do without stress, and ease into the switch once settled.

When my friends moved, they budgeted three years to prep. I took me about the same. Doesn't mean it has to take that long - can always come in under budget -- but it was about right in my experience.