Low B strings on bass guitar and electric guitar

[MarkMgibson]

I guess we'll have to wait and see how long they last. I know a couple of guitarists who've bought 7 stringers, and in both cases they're sitting gathering dust. I think they're a fad, like scalloped fretboards in the 80's, but who knows?

[levis76]

They aren't very popular around these parts, but Korn has been using 7 string guitars since they formed. Steve Vai was using 7 and 8 strings back in the '80s. "Extra" stringed axes have been around for awhile and will always be. Ever seen a Warr?

People told Anthony Jackson to take a hike back in the day when he was looking to have an extended range bass made. A lot of big name luthiers wouldn't touch it, unitl Carl Thompson made him one according to Mr. Jackson's specs. It wasn't a success, but it was groundbreaking. We still have extended range basses today thanks to Mr. Jackson and I beleive we will have extended range guitars to match them for a long time to come.

All hail musical freedom, and to hell with all who want to prevent music from evolving in to whatever it may become.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I guess we'll have to wait and see how long they last. I know a couple of guitarists who've bought 7 stringers, and in both cases they're sitting gathering dust. I think they're a fad, like scalloped fretboards in the 80's, but who knows?

Then they don't like it well enough. Look at Stéphan Forté, the guitarist of Adagio : He plays 7 string guitars exclusively and Franck Hermanny, their bass player, plays 6 string basses exclusively. Why? Cause they both like the added strings and like the possibility's they have extra. Both players love the low B string!

So your comment that the 5 string bass adds the lowness is really weird as an excuse, not liking 7 string guitars..

Are you sure you shouldn't stick at the electric guitar instead?

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by levis76

They aren't very popular around these parts, but Korn has been using 7 string guitars since they formed. Steve Vai was using 7 and 8 strings back in the '80s. "Extra" stringed axes have been around for awhile and will always be. Ever seen a Warr?

People told Anthony Jackson to take a hike back in the day when he was looking to have an extended range bass made. A lot of big name luthiers wouldn't touch it, unitl Carl Thompson made him one according to Mr. Jackson's specs. It wasn't a success, but it was groundbreaking. We still have extended range basses today thanks to Mr. Jackson and I beleive we will have extended range guitars to match them for a long time to come.

All hail musical freedom, and to hell with all who want to prevent music from evolving in to whatever it may become.

Amen!!

[Ric5]

If you have a metal band with guitar players playing 7 or 8 string guitars with Low B or even a low F# and they play through Marshall 4x12 sealed cabs and turn up the bass then they would never need a bass player ... which is fine because the bass is drowned out in most metal bands anyway.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by Ric5

If you have a metal band with guitar players playing 7 or 8 string guitars with Low B or even a low F# and they play through Marshall 4x12 sealed cabs and turn up the bass then they would never need a bass player ... which is fine because the bass is drowned out in most metal bands anyway.

That doesn't make sence at all. Look at Meshuggah. Two 8 string guitars tuned in F#, their bass player uses 5 strings mostly, tuned in Drop C standard.

[DiabolusInMusic]

7 strings are a fad though... remember when Vai brought them in back in the late 80's/early 90's... they completely fell of the face of the planet until Korn's two guitarists decided they were both going to pick them up, which started a whole new generation of 7 players, this time going to low instead of shred. Korn came and went and 7 strings didn't catch on, now we have 8 strings as the big fad which in my opinion are awful (no room for bass). Animals as Leaders doesn't have a bass player for a reason, because there is no sonic space for him between two guys tapping 8 strings guitars.

You will always have the odd bands that use them, generally guys pushing the boundary (see Meshuggah) just like all odd ball inventions like the chapman stick and the warr guitar, I just do not see them gaining any kind of solid footing in traditional music.

The only guy I know playing an 8 string in a band setting has his bassist tuned up so he can be heard in the mix properly. I can see the threads now "guitars wants me to tune up??!!! BUT I AM THE BASS!!!!!"

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

7 strings are a fad though... remember when Vai brought them in back in the late 80's/early 90's... they completely fell of the face of the planet until Korn's two guitarists decided they were both going to pick them up, which started a whole new generation of 7 players, this time going to low instead of shred. Korn came and went and 7 strings didn't catch on, now we have 8 strings as the big fad which in my opinion are awful (no room for bass). Animals as Leaders doesn't have a bass player for a reason, because there is no sonic space for him between two guys tapping 8 strings guitars.

You will always have the odd bands that use them, generally guys pushing the boundary (see Meshuggah) just like all odd ball inventions like the chapman stick and the warr guitar, I just do not see them gaining any kind of solid footing in traditional music.

The only guy I know playing an 8 string in a band setting has his bassist tuned up so he can be heard in the mix properly. I can see the threads now "guitars wants me to tune up??!!! BUT I AM THE BASS!!!!!"

Hey, lookie here! Another one who dislikes them without a good reason. Yes I know AAL doesn't use a bass player all the time BUT they do invite bass players as guest for a performance to play with them live.

Secondly, like I said earlier : There are other bands that do use the 7 string guitar, just for it's lowness. For me, a 8 string guitar is too much with that F# string on it, but hey, other people do like it and even use a bass in the mix, studio ánd live.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

That doesn't make sence at all. Look at Meshuggah. Two 8 string guitars tuned in F#, their bass player uses 5 strings mostly, tuned in Drop C standard.

I was employing hyperbolic rhetoric (I was exaggerating to make people think)

But the exaggeration was not that far from reality. Some of those guitariasts who play through sealed 4x12 cabs and turn up the bass leave little room for the bass except for subsonic frequencies. Also many time the bass players in those bands scoop out the mids which further buries them in the mix.

I love 5 and 6 string basses and I like detuned guitars, and I have considered getting a 7 string guitar. But seriously the bass in some metal bands is totally lost in the mix except for a deep rumbling sound and maybe some dinky treble added...

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

That doesn't make sence at all. Look at Meshuggah. Two 8 string guitars tuned in F#, their bass player uses 5 strings mostly, tuned in Drop C standard.

I went to youtube and listened to Meshuggah .... That kind of music is very painful and unpleasant for me to hear ... That is my opinion ... I respect the fact that you like it ... But if that is what what people are doing with 8 string guitars then they make my point for me. When you have 2 or 3 guitars playing that low why even have a bass, and then the vocals are singing that low and the drummer is constantly banging 16th notes on double bass drums. It becomes a non musical low rumble. Kinda like a jet plane taking off.

I don't want to argue or piss anybody off ... just state my opinion

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I was employing hyperbolic rhetoric (I was exaggerating to make people think)

But the exaggeration was not that far from reality. Some of those guitariasts who play through sealed 4x12 cabs and turn up the bass leave little room for the bass except for subsonic frequencies. Also many time the bass players in those bands scoop out the mids which further buries them in the mix.

I love 5 and 6 string basses and I like detuned guitars, and I have considered getting a 7 string guitar. But seriously the bass in some metal bands is totally lost in the mix except for a deep rumbling sound and maybe some dinky treble added...

In that case I apologize You see, it's not always due to downtuned guitars or extended range guitars, that there is no room for bass. When it comes to live, you can blame the sound guy a lot!

I saw Rammstein live in 2009 in Holland, they play almost everything in Drop D and yet I didn't hear the bass well. Only times you could hear the bass was when the guitars didn't play and even then it was almost not hearable. Oliver Riedel (Rammsteins bassist) is a pickplayer for about 80 % of the songs they made and yet it doesn't give extra boost for it.

So I can understand you point, but the sound guy can screw it up good. Look at John Myung from Dream Theater : 6 string bass player exclusively, they play most stuff in standard tuning, their guitar player John Patitrucci plays most stuff on 6 string electric guitars and even that doesn't make Myungs sound hearable well..

Understand my point?

[Epitaph04]

Most bass players are audible in most every genre. Play a song and turn the bass down, or better yet look up all the isolated tracks on youtube. Even bassists that seem to be buried are actually audible and fill a space in the mix, its just that most bassists expect to hear the full range tone of the bassist on every record. So yes you can hear guys like John Myung. Get a better sound system or better ears, because theres no way you cant hear him on records like Falling Into Infinity, Images and Words, Train of Thought, A Dramatic Turn of Events..

That being said, most records *could* use a bass guitar volume boost.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I went to youtube and listened to Meshuggah .... That kind of music is very painful and unpleasant for me to hear ... That is my opinion ... I respect the fact that you like it ... But if that is what what people are doing with 8 string guitars then they make my point for me. When you have 2 or 3 guitars playing that low why even have a bass, and then the vocals are singing that low and the drummer is constantly banging 16th notes on double bass drums. It becomes a non musical low rumble. Kinda like a jet plane taking off.

I don't want to argue or piss anybody off ... just state my opinion

Don't worry, I don't like Meshuggah either, just gave an example

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by Epitaph04

Most bass players are audible in most every genre. Play a song and turn the bass down, or better yet look up all the isolated tracks on youtube. Even bassists that seem to be buried are actually audible and fill a space in the mix, its just that most bassists expect to hear the full range tone of the bassist on every record. So yes you can hear guys like John Myung. Get a better sound system or better ears, because theres no way you cant hear him on records like Falling Into Infinity, Images and Words, Train of Thought, A Dramatic Turn of Events..

That being said, most records *could* use a bass guitar volume boost.

That's what I meant

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I went to youtube and listened to Meshuggah .... That kind of music is very painful and unpleasant for me to hear ... That is my opinion ... I respect the fact that you like it ... But if that is what what people are doing with 8 string guitars then they make my point for me. When you have 2 or 3 guitars playing that low why even have a bass, and then the vocals are singing that low and the drummer is constantly banging 16th notes on double bass drums. It becomes a non musical low rumble. Kinda like a jet plane taking off.

I don't want to argue or piss anybody off ... just state my opinion

I'll take the jet plane every single time.

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Explain what? A 5 string bass is useful because it adds extra notes to the spectrum. A 7 string guitar adds nothing, as the bass covers those low notes anyway.

Each to their own though.

I guess the 6th string on a guitar doesn't add anything either 'cause the bass covers those low notes too

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by Herrick

I guess the 6th string on a guitar doesn't add anything either 'cause the bass covers those low notes too

LOL Anyway, I can't understand his point at all. A 7th string on a electric guitar does add something and that something is more low And yes, the bass has lowness too with a B string, but still it's great that electric guitars come with a low B string on it

[HaMMerHeD]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

That doesn't make sence at all. Look at Meshuggah. Two 8 string guitars tuned in F#, their bass player uses 5 strings mostly, tuned in Drop C standard.

If you can hear Dick (hehe) over Fredrik and Martin, then you have better ears than me.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

If you can hear Dick (hehe) over Fredrik and Martin, then you have better ears than me.

Never saw them live (never will either), but I can hear him for some parts on albums, use headphones!

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

In that case I apologize You see, it's not always due to downtuned guitars or extended range guitars, that there is no room for bass. When it comes to live, you can blame the sound guy a lot!

I saw Rammstein live in 2009 in Holland, they play almost everything in Drop D and yet I didn't hear the bass well. Only times you could hear the bass was when the guitars didn't play and even then it was almost not hearable. Oliver Riedel (Rammsteins bassist) is a pickplayer for about 80 % of the songs they made and yet it doesn't give extra boost for it.

So I can understand you point, but the sound guy can screw it up good. Look at John Myung from Dream Theater : 6 string bass player exclusively, they play most stuff in standard tuning, their guitar player John Patitrucci plays most stuff on 6 string electric guitars and even that doesn't make Myungs sound hearable well..

Understand my point?

Dream Theature is a very good band ... I enjoy some of their stuff.