Low B strings on bass guitar and electric guitar

[lokikallas]

Originally Posted by spade2you

I recall a time in the mid to late 90's where a lot of metal bands had a 7 string guitar and a 6 string bass. Ultimately, I think both fell out of favor because the full range wasn't utilized or necessary. To be honest, my initial exposure to Korn and Limp Bizkit was the antithesis of what I enjoyed, so I had little interest in the low B on a guitar or bass. They sounded muddy and cheap. A few years later, I finally found a 5 string that I thought sounded great.

After many years on bass, I started playing guitar again and thought I'd benefit from having a low B string and approach it the way we normally do as a bassist. I mostly use it to transpose or shift positions. I don't play chugga chugga metal.

I agree, I'm certainly not a fan of either band but I did notice the influx of 7 string guitars at GC cooincided with their rise to popularity. It's all about EQ.

[DiabolusInMusic]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Hey, lookie here! Another one who dislikes them without a good reason. Yes I know AAL doesn't use a bass player all the time BUT they do invite bass players as guest for a performance to play with them live.

Secondly, like I said earlier : There are other bands that do use the 7 string guitar, just for it's lowness. For me, a 8 string guitar is too much with that F# string on it, but hey, other people do like it and even use a bass in the mix, studio ánd live.

Did you read my post or merely respond to it. I don't like 8 strings and think they are a fad, I clearly listed an extremely valid reason that other people can relate to. Which is that it crosses into your sonic space. There is a big difference between hearing everything and having everything nicely EQ'd across a spectrum. I also listed my reasons why I feel 7 strings were a fad as well, which they were. People on here complain all day long about the first time they jam with a rookie piano player who plays as far as their left hand can go, just imagine once guitartists get into that range... the HORRORS!!!

I have yet to hear a good band with both an 8 string guitarist and a bass player, Animals as Leaders is alright, not my bag, but they have melody. They have room for a bass player though. Mesuggah are talented sure, but I think they sound like garbage with a hard R. The fellows I know that use 8 strings play sh***y metal as well, it is like Mesuggah without the deep level of musical understanding and more so patching together a bunch of different riffs and calling it a song.

My guitarist uses a 7 string, I love Dream Theater, I don't think the 8 string will go away or it should be stopped but I do not see it ever gaining any kind of solid footing in popular music, just like the 7 string.

Sorry for de-railing this thread back onto topic...

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by lokikallas

I agree, I'm certainly not a fan of either band but I did notice the influx of 7 string guitars at GC cooincided with their rise to popularity. It's all about EQ.

EQ is a big part of it. Well, and not going jugga jugga juggity all day. I'll be happy if/when that fad is over.

As for GC, you might be right. I didn't have one of those in my area until about 2 years ago.

Nonetheless, a well made 7 that's set up well and EQ'd nicely sounds more or less like a standard guitar until the extended range is utilized. The low B on my acoustic has a wonderful harp guitar vibe at times.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Did you read my post or merely respond to it. I don't like 8 strings and think they are a fad, I clearly listed an extremely valid reason that other people can relate to. Which is that it crosses into your sonic space. There is a big difference between hearing everything and having everything nicely EQ'd across a spectrum. I also listed my reasons why I feel 7 strings were a fad as well, which they were. People on here complain all day long about the first time they jam with a rookie piano player who plays as far as their left hand can go, just imagine once guitartists get into that range... the HORRORS!!!

I have yet to hear a good band with both an 8 string guitarist and a bass player, Animals as Leaders is alright, not my bag, but they have melody. They have room for a bass player though. Mesuggah are talented sure, but I think they sound like garbage with a hard R. The fellows I know that use 8 strings play sh***y metal as well, it is like Mesuggah without the deep level of musical understanding and more so patching together a bunch of different riffs and calling it a song.

My guitarist uses a 7 string, I love Dream Theater, I don't think the 8 string will go away or it should be stopped but I do not see it ever gaining any kind of solid footing in popular music, just like the 7 string.

Sorry for de-railing this thread back onto topic...

I'm not totally against the idea of an 8 string guitar, although I can't say I've heard one that makes me want to buy one. Lots of unfavorable logistics IMHO. I'm a bit sequeemish about getting a low F# string on my basses since it took me long enough to get a low B sound I liked. I think fanned frets is almost a must for the guitars. Even if my acoustic guitar could handle a F# string, I'd think the acoustic volume would be on the poor side.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Did you read my post or merely respond to it. I don't like 8 strings and think they are a fad, I clearly listed an extremely valid reason that other people can relate to. Which is that it crosses into your sonic space. There is a big difference between hearing everything and having everything nicely EQ'd across a spectrum. I also listed my reasons why I feel 7 strings were a fad as well, which they were. People on here complain all day long about the first time they jam with a rookie piano player who plays as far as their left hand can go, just imagine once guitartists get into that range... the HORRORS!!!

I have yet to hear a good band with both an 8 string guitarist and a bass player, Animals as Leaders is alright, not my bag, but they have melody. They have room for a bass player though. Mesuggah are talented sure, but I think they sound like garbage with a hard R. The fellows I know that use 8 strings play sh***y metal as well, it is like Mesuggah without the deep level of musical understanding and more so patching together a bunch of different riffs and calling it a song.

My guitarist uses a 7 string, I love Dream Theater, I don't think the 8 string will go away or it should be stopped but I do not see it ever gaining any kind of solid footing in popular music, just like the 7 string.

Sorry for de-railing this thread back onto topic...

Haha, I understand you. Well, besides AAS, I too haven't spot a band that sounded good with 8 string guitars (Obscura ain't my thing either, although they have some good melodic stuff).

But as for now, I only feel good about 7 string guitars in bands most of the time. As long as someone knows how to apply it in his / her music very well, I'm happy with it

If it's just ''shredding all the way'' and such, I'll pass xD

[spade2you]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA8iznaPgKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DjwNeU3X-M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCqlXpjzyEs

[georgestrings]

I play a BEADG tuned 5er, and my band plays a couple of songs that require our guitarists to get down to low B - off the top of my head:

Bad Company(FFDP)
Feel Like I do(Drowning Pool)
Vitamin R(Chevelle)
White Trash Millionaire(Blackstone Cherry)

They were already using D tuned guitars in drop C to get down that low, and now use a Morpheus pedal to go from C to B... It seems to work pretty well, actually - they typically cut a little low end when we're playing in C or lower, and that keeps our mix from getting too muddy... I think it's a more cost effective solution to cover a few songs rather than get another guitar(7 string)...


- georgstrings

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

Old band is playing in drop E now... (we were still in drop G at the time of my departure) this means the guitars are as low as a standard bass, and the bass an octave lower, but you know what? It sounds crazy good. And true you cant hear every single thing the bass does live or on a recording, but every show I played I could absolutely hear a difference each time I dropped out and that was enough to let me know I was doing something.

I'd love to hear a recording of that. That's some crazy low tuning.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I'd love to hear a recording of that. That's some crazy low tuning.

I wonder about the vocals.. Just grunts and growls no one can hear I guess

[spade2you]

Ohhhh, this guitar is making me all tingly in the pants area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEp9n-qygJo

[Ric5]

I would like to get a 7 string acoustic guitar with a low B ... but they are hard to find.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I would like to get a 7 string acoustic guitar with a low B ... but they are hard to find.

Only a handful of stock 7 string acoustics have been made. String selection isn't the best. You'd need to run something a lot heavier than a .070 in standard 25.5" scale to get it to sound good. I don't really see too many companies offering a budget fanned fret acoustic, either.

There are acoustic builders who can do this, but the wallet must be opened wide.

[8liter]

Extended acoustics seem fine to me (I know that this is an exception because it's a custom build, but in the future these might become more 'wallet friendly' as the demand becomes larger as with most new instrument ideas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7cLQBmPds

I'm kinda shocked that people think there is "no room" for extended range guitars and bass in the same band. I've listened to hundreds of songs that completely say otherwise. One of my new favorites is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU low guitars and a fretless bass that cuts through perfectly fine ( some seriously great fretless playing by this guy)

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Only a handful of stock 7 string acoustics have been made. String selection isn't the best. You'd need to run something a lot heavier than a .070 in standard 25.5" scale to get it to sound good. I don't really see too many companies offering a budget fanned fret acoustic, either.

There are acoustic builders who can do this, but the wallet must be opened wide.

Well a little bit off topic on that point, but that's how I feel with the low B string on a bass with a 34 or 35 inch scale Some builders sell there basses that have low B strings, with a .125 or .130 gauge. For my taste (and it is my opion), I think you should get atleast a .135 on it.

I have a .140 B string on my bass now and I'm not going back

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by 8liter

Extended acoustics seem fine to me (I know that this is an exception because it's a custom build, but in the future these might become more 'wallet friendly' as the demand becomes larger as with most new instrument ideas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7cLQBmPds

I'm kinda shocked that people think there is "no room" for extended range guitars and bass in the same band. I've listened to hundreds of songs that completely say otherwise. One of my new favorites is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU low guitars and a fretless bass that cuts through perfectly fine ( some seriously great fretless playing by this guy)

I feel the same man! That's why I love Adagio so much! Franck Hermanny (bass) plays 6 string basses exclusively, he plays most in standard tuning, but for other songs (mostly instrumental), the bass and electric guitar are down tuned a whole step and still you can hear the bass well, despite of Stephan Forté (guitar) playing 7 string electric guitar exclusively.

They just know how to keep things balanced well, even though there in only 1 electric guitar, it all still sounds good

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Well a little bit off topic on that point, but that's how I feel with the low B string on a bass with a 34 or 35 inch scale Some builders sell there basses that have low B strings, with a .125 or .130 gauge. For my taste (and it is my opion), I think you should get atleast a .135 on it.

I have a .140 B string on my bass now and I'm not going back

I think a .130 is the most common. I play with a medium light touch and the .130 has always served me well. I used to have a .125 on a fretless and still use a .127 taperwound string on my 35" scale Conklin, which still sounds extremely clear at about the 15th "fret".

Comparing the acoustic guitar to a bass isn't quite an apples to apples comparision. I have a 32" scale bass with an amazing low B, but I don't see how it would be too feasible to get these results on a shorter scale length acoustic.

A "standard" bass A string is .085 and 34" scale. Tuning my acoustic to that same A with a .070 and 27" is quite a difference. I can do this, but the low B sounds muddy and undefined compared to the other strings, much like a bass with a weak low B (or however low people tune).

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by 8liter

Extended acoustics seem fine to me (I know that this is an exception because it's a custom build, but in the future these might become more 'wallet friendly' as the demand becomes larger as with most new instrument ideas)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX7cLQBmPds

Without pulling a snob card, this guitar isn't an acoustic and I didn't think the scale length/strings can produce the tone I get from mine. It was hard enough finding a suitable low B string, I don't think I'd want to hassle with a low F#. IMHO, the tone of the guitar reflects why something like this should probably be fanned.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by spade2you

I think a .130 is the most common. I play with a medium light touch and the .130 has always served me well. I used to have a .125 on a fretless and still use a .127 taperwound string on my 35" scale Conklin, which still sounds extremely clear at about the 15th "fret".

Comparing the acoustic guitar to a bass isn't quite an apples to apples comparision. I have a 32" scale bass with an amazing low B, but I don't see how it would be too feasible to get these results on a shorter scale length acoustic.

A "standard" bass A string is .085 and 34" scale. Tuning my acoustic to that same A with a .070 and 27" is quite a difference. I can do this, but the low B sounds muddy and undefined compared to the other strings, much like a bass with a weak low B (or however low people tune).

Yeah, I can imagen what you are saying. And of course there are more bass players that use standard gauges, then the heavier one I've got. .140 is a little bit too much for some, for others it's great.

And there is this third group that likes to go even heavier I remember a guy from my old school that was using a .160 low B

Unfortunatly, I never heared him play so I can't judge anything about it's sound and such, but for me .140 is just good

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Without pulling a snob card, this guitar isn't an acoustic and I didn't think the scale length/strings can produce the tone I get from mine. It was hard enough finding a suitable low B string, I don't think I'd want to hassle with a low F#. IMHO, the tone of the guitar reflects why something like this should probably be fanned.

I'll agree, it sounds pretty muddy on the F# and B strings, but what is it that disqualifies it from the acoustic classification? As far as i can see from the "Luthiers Demo" of the same guitar it looks like a typical thin-bodied acoustic with an off-beat soundhole concept.

[hrodbert696]

Been fun with the popcorn in this thread, but back to the OP: there is no reason at all why the bassist having 5 strings means the guitarist ought to have 7. It's just notes. Just because one instrument is playing in a low range doesn't mean everyone has to, or indeed should.

There was a guy around here running a CL ad a while back, wanted to put a prog group together. It was interesting, until the ad insisted that since the guitarist (the advertiser) played a seven-string, the bassist would HAVE TO play a 5er. Now, it so happens that I DO play mostly 5ers - but I wouldn't want to be in a group with a guy who had this odd notion.