Low B strings on bass guitar and electric guitar

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

I'll agree, it sounds pretty muddy on the F# and B strings, but what is it that disqualifies it from the acoustic classification? As far as i can see from the "Luthiers Demo" of the same guitar it looks like a typical thin-bodied acoustic with an off-beat soundhole concept.

I'll give it a semi-acoustic due to the thinline body. Acoustic projection takes a lot of skill and design, perhaps more since it takes more energy to project the additional lower range.

Without an amp, the deficiency in the strings/lack of fan would also be more evident. Kinda like putting thin electric strings on an acoustic. It would be very dull sounding and lack output.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by spade2you

I'll give it a semi-acoustic due to the thinline body. Acoustic projection takes a lot of skill and design, perhaps more since it takes more energy to project the additional lower range.

Without an amp, the deficiency in the strings/lack of fan would also be more evident. Kinda like putting thin electric strings on an acoustic. It would be very dull sounding and lack output.

So as a (semi) acoustic guitar owner ánd player, you would recommend medium to heavy string gauges?

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

So as a (semi) acoustic guitar owner ánd player, you would recommend medium to heavy string gauges?

http://www.juststrings.com/daddariog...lestrings.html

D'Addario's phosphor bronze and EXP phosphor bronze would be a place to start.

http://www.juststrings.com/phosphorb...lestrings.html
John Pearce makes a few.

Slim pickins out there. IMHO, the D'Addario .070 barely works at 27" scale.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by spade2you

http://www.juststrings.com/daddariog...lestrings.html

D'Addario's phosphor bronze and EXP phosphor bronze would be a place to start.

http://www.juststrings.com/phosphorb...lestrings.html
John Pearce makes a few.

Slim pickins out there. IMHO, the D'Addario .070 barely works at 27" scale.

With a 27 inch scale, would you go thicker or thinner? I heared some people went thinner with a 27 inch scale (for electric atleast). Dunno why, perhaps cause of the extra tension you get with the extra 1.5 inch..

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

With a 27 inch scale, would you go thicker or thinner? I heared some people went thinner with a 27 inch scale (for electric atleast). Dunno why, perhaps cause of the extra tension you get with the extra 1.5 inch..

Yes and no. I'm a VERY strict judge of the B string and my goal is for it to have roughly the same timbre as the E string, or as close as humanly possible. On electric guitar, I'm fine with a .056 on a 25.5" scale 7 string with light strings, low action, and light technique. Acoustic is just a different beast.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Acoustic is just a different beast.

Indeed

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Indeed

Yup. I was initially worried that the .070 at 27" would be too much, but it ended up being a hair anemic to my ears.

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by HaMMerHeD

I can hear him sometimes too. Oddly, my car has great factory speakers and I can hear things in the car that I miss otherwise. And occasionally I can hear Lovgren's grinding twang. But....compared to Fredrik's and Martin's guitars, his bass sounds incredibly weak. I think Meshuggah will eventually go the way of AAL and drop the bassist completely. It's a shame, because their bass tone on Chaosphere was amazing to me.

I have a hard time hearing Lovgren on the albums. I'm not sure if it's him or the guitars I doubt they'll get rid of Lovgren.

[HaMMerHeD]

Well...Lovgren is their 3rd bass player, so I don't think they have any real affinity for the instrument. And it's practically inaudible most of the time. I think if they keep a bass player indefinitely, it's more for conformity to the existing band model than anything else.

[Bloodhammer]

Not according to them. The reason you have trouble hearing Dick is because he's using distortion and tuned up to C, IIRC. He's like a good compressor, you wouldn't know he was there until he wasn't.

Martin and Fredrick have said that "the distorted bass is 50% of our sound," in an interview. If you have the deluxe version of Koloss, in the "making of" part of the DVD, there's a point where Dick is laying down his tracks for "Demiurge" and you can really hear how important bass is in their music. That song just wouldn't have it's punchiness without the bass lines.

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

The reason you have trouble hearing Dick is because he's using distortion and tuned up to C, IIRC. He's like a good compressor, you wouldn't know he was there until he wasn't.

That song just wouldn't have it's punchiness without the bass lines.

+1000000000

It's metal. For you older folks raised on 70s and 80s metal, my apologies, no disrespect to that metal, but this is what the genre has evolved into. The bass is not a prominent part of the music like it is in many other genres, it's re-enforcement. It exists to make the music seem bigger, hit harder, and generally make it sound "heavier." I cant hear myself at shows very well at all, but I can hear when I drop out and I do so specifically to make the second half of a breakdown even heavier.

As per Meshuggah's bassist tuning up, I heard that too. Some people just cant get down to the low C like Jauqo and others on this forum can

[Herrick]

Yeah the distorted bass sound is probably why I have a problem hearing the bass. It's there and I can pick it out sometimes but I have to listen carefully. However, when it comes to most metal bands (especially modern extreme metal) I think the bass is just there for the sake of conformity like HaMMerHed said. It's such a a minimal part of the sound. It's a shame. Bass sounds cool

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Herrick

However, when it comes to most metal bands (especially modern extreme metal) I think the bass is just there for the sake of conformity like HaMMerHed said. It's such a a minimal part of the sound. It's a shame. Bass sounds cool

I can attest, the bass is there. It's not minimal, but rather subliminal. Go to any modern metal show and sneak onstage and unplug the bass. Trust me, the bass is more prominent than I think a lot of people realize.

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

I can attest, the bass is there. It's not minimal, but rather subliminal. Go to any modern metal show and sneak onstage and unplug the bass. Trust me, the bass is more prominent than I think a lot of people realize.

Sorry about that. I should've specified that I was talking about studio recordings only. It's good to hear that the situation is different in a live setting

What do you think about bass sound on studio recordings?

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Herrick

Sorry about that. I should've specified that I was talking about studio recordings only. It's good to hear that the situation is different in a live setting

What do you think about bass sound on studio recordings?

Bass? In metal recordings? Blasphemy!

On that matter I entirely agree with you. And It makes me mad every time I hit a studio with a band.

[TheEmptyCell]

Pop over to the sevenstring forum and listen to a lot of the extended range guitar players own recordings with and without bass. The bass does a lot for the overall sound, but isn't standing out. Meshuggah would sound pretty weak without Dick in there (heh heh).

[spade2you]

I kinda diverged away from metal when it suddenly became a requirement to take me out of the mix. George Van Eps managed to use a 7 string guitar well before metal without killing the bassist.

I auditioned once or twice with bands that tuned their guitars about as low as my basses. They seemed to want me inaudible. Didn't make much sense for me to be there in the first place.

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

Bass? In metal recordings? Blasphemy!

On that matter I entirely agree with you. And It makes me mad every time I hit a studio with a band.

I don't get it. Can't they simply turn up the volume on the bass track or something?

Originally Posted by TheEmptyCell

Pop over to the sevenstring forum and listen to a lot of the extended range guitar players own recordings with and without bass. The bass does a lot for the overall sound, but isn't standing out. Meshuggah would sound pretty weak without Dick in there (heh heh).

I'm a member there but I haven't been checking out the forum lately. Which ones do you recommend?

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Herrick

I don't get it. Can't they simply turn up the volume on the bass track or something?

You'd think that, but no... The bass I hear is always mixed with a really klankity tone. You want the distorted hitting of the strings on the frets, and the pick (or in my case fingers) on the strings. I had my bass mixed well enough, with a decent enough rig that I got both that *and* a very strong deep fundamental, but most bands I hear especially in recordings (when everything but the bass drop out just before a recording) there is almost no fundamental to be heard. And this is listening on studio-quality monitors.
Maybe when I get in another heavy band and we get far enough to have an album recorded in a pro studio, not a home studio that is almost identical to mine, I can throw in some tips so the bass is actually audible and noticeable!

[Clef_de_fa]

I see a 7 or 8 strings guitar as a way to make new chords or beef up the sound. Also it can be used to cover to low while the bass solo ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU
This is a technical death metal from Montréal