Low B strings on bass guitar and electric guitar

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

I see a 7 or 8 strings guitar as a way to make new chords or beef up the sound. Also it can be used to cover to low while the bass solo ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0MkJtI3FvU
This is a technical death metal from Montréal

I love that fretless tone! That is the first of that genre I have ever heard in which the bass is that present! And mad props to him for those chops

[preside]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

Explain what? A 5 string bass is useful because it adds extra notes to the spectrum. A 7 string guitar adds nothing, as the bass covers those low notes anyway.

Each to their own though.

I agree to each thier own , however the real utility of extended range does not lie in lower notes but the ability to access different fingerings with fewer position shifts. I initally got my 5 string for lower notes but find now thats it's more about fewer shifts.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by preside

I agree to each thier own , however the real utility of extended range does not lie in lower notes but the ability to access different fingerings with fewer position shifts. I initally got my 5 string for lower notes but find now thats it's more about fewer shifts.

Eh... I'll go for both

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

You'd think that, but no... The bass I hear is always mixed with a really klankity tone. You want the distorted hitting of the strings on the frets, and the pick (or in my case fingers) on the strings. I had my bass mixed well enough, with a decent enough rig that I got both that *and* a very strong deep fundamental, but most bands I hear especially in recordings (when everything but the bass drop out just before a recording) there is almost no fundamental to be heard. And this is listening on studio-quality monitors.
Maybe when I get in another heavy band and we get far enough to have an album recorded in a pro studio, not a home studio that is almost identical to mine, I can throw in some tips so the bass is actually audible and noticeable!

Yeah I'm not a fan of that thin klankity sound either.

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Herrick

Yeah I'm not a fan of that thin klankity sound either.

Oh absolutely not. I'd prefer to play clean with a little growl, but I was outnumbered 4-1 and dang was that music too fun to play to be worth getting kicked out over tone.

As per the extra string being only to go lower, I'd say its more for the advantage of drop-tunings and traditional chord shapes. And let's be real, what is an extra P4 lower in the grand scheme of things? Or even a P5? And even if you do think that's a lot, play the low e on your guitar, then the e string on your bass and remember, you only have one octave difference already

Timbre, my friends! Timbre is the answer you are all failing to see!

[TomA1234]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

I love that fretless tone! That is the first of that genre I have ever heard in which the bass is that present! And mad props to him for those chops

If you like them, check out Defiant imagination by Quo Vadis (the same guy toured with them for that album) and Augury (same guy recorded that).

Montreal produces some amazing tech/prog death metal.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by preside

I agree to each thier own , however the real utility of extended range does not lie in lower notes but the ability to access different fingerings with fewer position shifts. I initally got my 5 string for lower notes but find now thats it's more about fewer shifts.

I was talking more about guitars - I certainly don't have a problem with 5 string basses.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

I was talking more about guitars - I certainly don't have a problem with 5 string basses.

Well still the same story for me : I like added strings for both instruments

[Mr_Music90]

Say... talking about those added strings, now something else I would like to know : If you down tune your bass guitar, can you still play in standard tuning when you play electric guitar, without being ''overrun'' by the low bass sound?

I know a guy who uses the same tuning like Peter Iwers (In Flames) and he tunes his bass Eb, Bb, F, C, Bb (sorry if this isn't down tuned ), but I didn't hear him talk about the guitars doing the kind of tuning he uses..

[JamesGoodall]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Say... talking about those added strings, now something else I would like to know : If you down tune your bass guitar, can you still play in standard tuning when you play electric guitar, without being ''overrun'' by the low bass sound?

I know a guy who uses the same tuning like Peter Iwers (In Flames) and he tunes his bass Eb, Bb, F, C, Bb (sorry if this isn't down tuned ), but I didn't hear him talk about the guitars doing the kind of tuning he uses..

I dont think I quite understand your question. Do you mean can we play *with* standard tuned guitarists or something else?

If so, I do it all the time. My bass is in drop G and I'm constantly jamming with friends and bands who never tune lower than *occasionally* drop or open D. It's all about feeling when those massively low notes would fit well and when you need to stay up higher.

As for Iwers' tuning, that looks like 5ths, except for the m7 jump from C to Bb...Not sure if you got the notes wrong there or he actually has that, cause it's pretty wacky, beyond anything I've seen before.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by JamesGoodall

I dont think I quite understand your question. Do you mean can we play *with* standard tuned guitarists or something else?

If so, I do it all the time. My bass is in drop G and I'm constantly jamming with friends and bands who never tune lower than *occasionally* drop or open D. It's all about feeling when those massively low notes would fit well and when you need to stay up higher.

As for Iwers' tuning, that looks like 5ths, except for the m7 jump from C to Bb...Not sure if you got the notes wrong there or he actually has that, cause it's pretty wacky, beyond anything I've seen before.

Yes, that's what I meant with that.

Well, that's what I got from Ibanez's website. I thought it looked weird too, but if these actually is the tuning he's using, I wonder how he composes it..

[Clef_de_fa]

Originally Posted by TomA1234

If you like them, check out Defiant imagination by Quo Vadis (the same guy toured with them for that album) and Augury (same guy recorded that).

Montreal produces some amazing tech/prog death metal.

Well Steve Giorgio played also with Death and have one DVD with Quo Vadis. Nice but not as present to me because he often follow the guitars but when he goes out, you hear him a lot.

The guy in Beyond Creation is named Dominic Lapoint and the whole album is really incredible. Many things that I never heard a bass player think of.

[TheEmptyCell]

Originally Posted by Mr_Music90

Say... talking about those added strings, now something else I would like to know : If you down tune your bass guitar, can you still play in standard tuning when you play electric guitar, without being ''overrun'' by the low bass sound?

I know a guy who uses the same tuning like Peter Iwers (In Flames) and he tunes his bass Eb, Bb, F, C, Bb (sorry if this isn't down tuned ), but I didn't hear him talk about the guitars doing the kind of tuning he uses..

I play 5 string in drop A sometimes while the guitarist is using a 6 string in standard. Works fine.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by TheEmptyCell

I play 5 string in drop A sometimes while the guitarist is using a 6 string in standard. Works fine.

Great!

[JVA]

Originally Posted by levis76

All hail musical freedom, and to hell with all who want to prevent music from evolving in to whatever it may become.

I stopped reading replies after this post....

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by JVA

I stopped reading replies after this post....

Hahahaha, good idea!

[obimark]

if I play metal (where usually the bass is going to double some or all of the guitars riffs) and the guitar is playing riffs that are mostly built off open E (whether it is actually E or downtuned to C or D). Common sense would say it is going to be easier for the band to have a Cohesive sound if my bass matches the guitars, and vice versa. Why would I want to work extra hard to play riffs with the low-B string that won't be needed for 95% of what is played??


This is the same as playing songs that were in Drop-D bass tuning on a 5-string, it can be done, but it is nowhere near the same sound. ALA Rage Against the Machine- the sound of an OPEN TUNED Low D-String is DIfferent than the sound of the 3rd fret B-string.

[Mr_Music90]

Originally Posted by obimark

if I play metal (where usually the bass is going to double some or all of the guitars riffs) and the guitar is playing riffs that are mostly built off open E (whether it is actually E or downtuned to C or D). Common sense would say it is going to be easier for the band to have a Cohesive sound if my bass matches the guitars, and vice versa. Why would I want to work extra hard to play riffs with the low-B string that won't be needed for 95% of what is played??


This is the same as playing songs that were in Drop-D bass tuning on a 5-string, it can be done, but it is nowhere near the same sound. ALA Rage Against the Machine- the sound of an OPEN TUNED Low D-String is DIfferent than the sound of the 3rd fret B-string.

True, but it also depends on what kind of music you play Rammstein for example plays most songs in Drop-D, both electric guitars ánd bass. If you look at Adagio, the electric guitar and the bass guitar play most stuff in standard tuning, but they both use the Low B string a lot.

Rammstein is a Tanz-Metal / Industrial Metal band, were 80 % of the songs is played with a pick by their bass player.

Adagio is a Progressive Symphonic Metal / Neo-classical / Power Metal band, and their bass player NEVER uses a pick. He does a lot with bass sweeping, two hands tapping, slap 'n pop, flamenco-like strumming and such.

So with that said, it's also for the amount of strings (and tuning) a part that is importnant for the kind of musician you are

[8liter]

This is one of my new favorite "heavy" style bands. A bit of googlin' tells me that both guitar players use 7 strings, and the bass tone is one of my favorites. I think it's all a matter of tuning and the mix. I hardly think that people are running out of room for bass in extremely heavy metal music.

Check them out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWi_LvD2jf8

Here is a play through by their bass player Erland Caspersen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6Zp7f8NckA

and while I'm posting youtube links I figured I'd add this in as well. I love Animals as Leaders, but I really think they could use some bass!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Qbu-qvB7Y

Originally Posted by spade2you

Without pulling a snob card, this guitar isn't an acoustic.

Wait, what? That is a fully acoustic guitar, and I think the lower strings sound pretty damn good for being recording through a camera mic.

[Mr_Music90]

A bit too much for me, but the bass is mixed in good