Mahavishnu

[JimK]

Originally Posted by pnchad

victor wooten be without those broad 70's fusion shoulders to stand on.

True...although Vic Wooten was already playing quite well in the '70s.

Did some reading 2-night (Stuart Nicholson's Jazz-Rock) on McLaughlin & MO.
Inner Mounting Flame-
Charted at #89 on Billboard.

Birds Of Fire-
Charted at #15 on Billboard.

Yep, things are no different today.

[JimK]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

I'll turn 60 in a couple of months, and would honestly rather listen to Rihanna than Mahavishnu for the most part --

Wow...I'll be 55 in a couple of months...5 years from now, this is what I can look forward to..."listening" to cookie-cutter Pop?!? "Hearing" it 5-days/week at the gym is enough, thank you very much.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by JimK

Wow...I'll be 55 in a couple of months...5 years from now, this is what I can look forward to..."listening" to cookie-cutter Pop?!? "Hearing" it 5-days/week at the gym is enough, thank you very much.

After wearing out at least three copies of Inner Mounting Flame back when it was new, pretty sure I can just channel every note without using any electronic playback at this point, allsimsayin'.

Sorry for the abuse at your gym. My whole experience with Rihanna comes from asking my drummer's nine year old daughter what she wanted to hear us play at an all ages show we did last year. She requested Umbrella, which I actually think is a great pop tune. Naturally, I did it with sampled steel-cutting lathe as the lead instrument though. Scared the crap out of many of the adults, made me feel like a kid again. Good times.

[pnchad]

I'm glad this thread is taking off - subbed

I tried to start something similar a while back after watching the full WR video of the first festival gig w/JP on you tube

I asked everybody to show me a contemporary band that is that exciting ????

not for a while now

[Shakin-Slim]

I've always been a bit of a jazz buff but never really delved into anything post-Bitches Brew, with the exception of Weather Report and some more recent stuff like Joe Lovano and recent Blue Note releases like Jack DeJohnette's 'Sound Travels' etc. This thread has really encouraged me to get my hands on some Mahavishnu and Return to Forever. I know it's not really the same, but yesterday I got the bug to get some 70s Herbie Hancock, too. Something I've always shied away from, for some reason.

Some recent cats like Austin Peralta (R.I.P) and Janek Gwizdala remind me of some of that 70s fusion, in a way.

I believe fusion will be around for a long time. That is, the practice of fusing jazz with a more popular form, not necessarily jazz-rock fusion. There's a jazz-hip hop thing happening today, and I think that's great. I've been saying for a few years now that hip hop is the music of today, and of the future. So long as the stuff on the radio is ignored!

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Shakin-Slim

I believe fusion will be around for a long time. That is, the practice of fusing jazz with a more popular form, not necessarily jazz-rock fusion. There's a jazz-hip hop thing happening today, and I think that's great. I've been saying for a few years now that hip hop is the music of today, and of the future. So long as the stuff on the radio is ignored!

Check out some of Steve Coleman's work if you want to hear jazz and hip hop fused in a pretty cool way. His earlier work with Dave Holland is great straight ahead 80s jazz too.

[Shakin-Slim]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Check out some of Steve Coleman's work if you want to hear jazz and hip hop fused in a pretty cool way. His earlier work with Dave Holland is great straight ahead 80s jazz too.

I'll look into that, cheers! I'm a big fan of Dave Holland, particularly Gateway and Conference of the Birds. His playing on Joe Lovano's albums, such as Trio Fascination, is killer!

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Shakin-Slim

I'll look into that, cheers! I'm a big fan of Dave Holland, particularly Gateway and Conference of the Birds. His playing on Joe Lovano's albums, such as Trio Fascination, is killer!

Yep, that's all great stuff. Steve Coleman has lots of free downloads on his website, and there's also a ton of his stuff on YouTube. Reggie Washington is on a lot of it, monster bass player.

[pbass2]

Originally Posted by tkozal

There are some live shows out there that show the incredible awesomeness of Rick Laird. The studio albums dont really show what he can do. He was a wise man, and stayed out of the many diva's ways.

His old book on how to play jazz is great.

I love his playing--and classic Fender/flatwound tone--on those albums. He really is the glue. The whole maelstrom would've pulled apart at the seams if it wasn't for his holding it all together. And, he actually made it swing.

[Robert McVey]

Originally Posted by Roscoe East

What is it about a surname beginning with F-R-I that seems to bestow its owners with unbelievable guitar skills? I was looking through my CD collection (which is arranged alphabetically by artist) and when I came across the Fripp, Frisell, Frith section I started to think maybe there's something about that letter combination...

Yep, they all dropped a lot of Acid in their time...hence that letter combo.

All amazing guitar players.

I have an amazing performance of John McLaughlin and Jonas Hellborg doing Mahavishnu songs. John is playing his acoustic and Jonas is playing his double neck bass. You can find most of that video performance on YouTube.

Jonas Hellborg has been one of my favorites for a long time.

John McLaughlin, as a guitar player can play anything and with finesse... Jazz, Blues, Flamenco, Hindustani, Classical, the list goes on and on. He is definitely one of the best.

One thing that should be mentioned is that all of those progressive groups from the '70's Mahavishnu, Return to Forever, Weather Report, George Duke and Billy Cobham... All of them link in some form to one man... Miles Davis

If you ponder each group and the people who play in them you'll find at least one musician in those groups who has recorded with Miles at some point. Plus, he pretty much started the whole transition from acoustic to electric jazz music...

Truly amazing time and so different to what is available in music today.

[Robert McVey]

Originally Posted by JimK

Nice post, Ken!


Same here...I was in High School & was beginning an interest in Jazz/Fusion. An uncle bought me a Downbeat subscription...and I went out & bought Birds Of Fire, Mysterious Traveler (Weather Report), & No Mystery (RTF).
Needless to say, I was blown away...not fun, though, wishing I could play that stuff!


How about McLaughlin (on acoustic guitar), Corea & Clarke on "Song To John (Coltrane) Parts 1 & 2"?
Totally ridiculous...



I also bought Bitches Brew in the same time frame 'cause it was heralded as the 1st Fusion album...well, it took years for me to like it...totally unlike MO & RTF. Early Weather Report (pre-Jaco for sure) was coming a bit outta the Miles/BB bag.

Miles' Fusion albums...(Panagea, Agharta, Live @Fillmore East/West, Dark Magus, Circle In The Round, Black Beauty, Live-Evil, On The Corner, Jack Johnson (w/ McLaughlin), Festiva de Juan Pins, It's About Time (w/ the 3rd Great Quintet...not many recorded sample around of this 5-tet), et al-
...worth checking out.
Caveat: Maybe not what many think of when they hear '70s "Jazz Fusion"...i.e. NOT "Djent".

Hey, i missed that post.

Awesome, glad some people haven't forgotten Miles!!!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JimK

Nice post, Ken!


Same here...I was in High School & was beginning an interest in Jazz/Fusion. An uncle bought me a Downbeat subscription...and I went out & bought Birds Of Fire, Mysterious Traveler (Weather Report), & No Mystery (RTF).
Needless to say, I was blown away...not fun, though, wishing I could play that stuff!


How about McLaughlin (on acoustic guitar), Corea & Clarke on "Song To John (Coltrane) Parts 1 & 2"?
Totally ridiculous...

McLaughlin's acoustic work turned me onto Paco De Lucia, who I NEVER get tired of listening to.

I still regularly spin (hah... spin.... I'm old) McLaughlin's Mediterannean Concerto, and also his multi guitar orchestra type thing on that Bill Evans tribute CD. Of course the somewhat more recent live trio recording (Live at the Royal Festival Hall) with Triloc Gurtu on percussion is one of the most amazing 'post fusion' performances of all time IMO.

I tried to get into the newer stuff with Matt Garrison and Dennis Chambers, etc., but it just sounded kind of tired and 'rehashed' to me. Amazing playing of course, but not much there I hadn't heard by 1975.

[bearhart74]

Steve Smiths Vital Information is pretty cool.
Uzeb was awesome.

[Roscoe East]

Originally Posted by KJung

I tried to get into the newer stuff with Matt Garrison and Dennis Chambers, etc., but it just sounded kind of tired and 'rehashed' to me. Amazing playing of course, but not much there I hadn't heard by 1975.

Someone gave me a copy of McLaughlin's The Heart Of Things album, from 1997 with Matt & Dennis...and you know what was there that we hadn't heard by 1975?

Really horribly awful guitar-synthesizer programming.

Not the playing, that's beyond reproach, but the actual sounds (patches) that John deploys on that album are abysmal! For a guy who's been using guitar-synths since 1975, you'd think he would have developed some sense of how to use the instrument expressively and sensetively. But no.

Oh yeah, the tunes suck too. Terrible album for anyone expecting 70's or even 80's era innovation or fire from McLaughlin.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Roscoe East

Someone gave me a copy of McLaughlin's The Heart Of Things album, from 1997 with Matt & Dennis...and you know what was there that we hadn't heard by 1975?

Really horribly awful guitar-synthesizer programming.

Not the playing, that's beyond reproach, but the actual sounds (patches) that John deploys on that album are abysmal! For a guy who's been using guitar-synths since 1975, you'd think he would have developed some sense of how to use the instrument expressively and sensetively. But no.

Oh yeah, the tunes suck too. Terrible album for anyone expecting 70's or even 80's era innovation or fire from McLaughlin.

I agree.... not my thing. I do appreciate the 'Vital Information' stuff posted above. That is kind of fresh (or at least was fresh back when it came out. Different take on the 'fusion' thing, and I believe Jeff Andrews was on bass (unique voice on the instrument for that style of music... more substance and support than flash, but still killing).

I recently bought a new CD with Jeff Berlin, Dennis Chambers and Scott Henderson (I still always try to keep up with what might be new and interesting in the 'post fusion' sort of thing. Man, listened to half of it and literally threw it in the trash. They started off doing an absolutely sterile version of 'Actual Proof' or whatever that amazing tune is off of the Headhunter's Thrust CD. It was so stunningly bad that it literally made me angry

Edit: That being said, the recent Steve Kahn disc with Chambers and Anthony Jackson.... that is worth a listen!

[Bisounourse]

Originally Posted by JimK

Miles' Fusion albums...(Panagea, Agharta, Live @Fillmore East/West, Dark Magus, Circle In The Round, Black Beauty, Live-Evil, On The Corner, Jack Johnson (w/ McLaughlin), Festiva de Juan Pins, It's About Time (w/ the 3rd Great Quintet...not many recorded sample around of this 5-tet), et al-
...worth checking out.

I know, I never grow tired of that.

Other groups that might be worth checking out:
Soft Machine
Magma (Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh is a killer record)

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Bisounourse

I know, I never grow tired of that.

I bought the remastered/reissued 'Jack Johnson' boxed set a few years ago. I remember listening to the whole thing one Saturday when my wife was out of town. After that, I felt like beating up a 7th grader or something So intense and dissonant, etc. Never put it on again, but that is some powerful stuff.

[RedMoses]

Your welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQKjffxIOY

[Steve Dallman]

I was a huge Mahavishnu fan in college in the very early 70's and beyond. I did not care as much for the second incarnation of the group, although I became a huge fan of Jean Luc Ponty (and Ralph Armstrong) a few years later.

Listening to the first two Mahavishnu albums today, it is striking how contemporary they sound. The only thing that sounds dated is the tone of Rick Laird's bass (as well as some of the keyboard tones) but bass playing has progressed a lot since then. McLaughlin's guitar is pretty raggedy, but not unusual in the guitar world pre-EVH's influence on the guitar universe (for good or bad.)

[Bisounourse]

Originally Posted by KJung

I bought the remastered/reissued 'Jack Johnson' boxed set a few years ago. I remember listening to the whole thing one Saturday when my wife was out of town. After that, I felt like beating up a 7th grader or something So intense and dissonant, etc. Never put it on again, but that is some powerful stuff.

I played Bitches Brew (the song) as an after party song in the hostel I visited whilst being on holiday. It was Sundaymorning, 5 o'clock, most other hostelgoers were on legal and not so legal substances and then Miles came... I will never forget the look on their faces. They sure went on a trip (although I don't know if that was the one they were asking for )