Making it sound progressive?

[Leftybass12]

One of my friends that I jam with a lot and I have been writing original music for a little bit now and we want to really expand. We want our style to sound progressive rock/metal, much like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Opeth, Rush, ect. We've been listening to their music a bunch, but does anyone have any hints, clues, tips, or any information on how to sound like this genre, music theory wise. We understand the technical skills, but are a little lost on what music theory to use.

[jmattbassplaya]

Weird time signatures, use of off beats, poly rhythms, intricate harmonized parts, and singing about talking trees.

[SteveC]

Don't forget dryers and vending machines.

[seamus bass]

youll need a pair of dice and a calculator for time changes
write lyrics about stuff you wish hot chicks were into
dress like you into to ren-fair
refer to your music as avant garde and over explain you music
if it sounds simple,natural,and flowing your doing it wrong
play jazz odyssey's to festival crowds
hope for the best expects the worst
write with modes not scales

minimum song length must be 8mins and thats not counting intros
write a "concept" album but leave it open in case you want to do another album later with the same "concept"

[Leftybass12]

lol, very nice answers to all. Nice jokes, but I could see past the sarcasm, lol. Thank you everyone.

[WalterBush]

Never throw away any melodic or lyrical idea, ever. They should ALL, whether they sound right or not, end up in your songs. No, really.

[seamus bass]

actually there are some truths to what i wrote

[MatticusMania]

Do lots of changes, mix up the parts, and keep the song going when you think it should end. This is what my improv 'prog' rock band does.

[Leftybass12]

Originally Posted by seamus bass

actually there are some truths to what i wrote

I saw what you were joking about and the truthful information. No worries

[sonic assassin]

the band before my current one was proggy hard rock. the drummer and i just overplayed whenever we had a chance. song structures were long and self indulgent.

i basically just outplayed everyone always . kept us technical.

[seamus bass]

Originally Posted by sonic assassin

the band before my current one was proggy hard rock. the drummer and i just overplayed whenever we had a chance. song structures were long and self indulgent.

i basically just outplayed everyone always . kept us technical.

yes "taking liberties" is also a requirement, RUSH said it best with:
"an exercise in self-indulgence"

[rhobe]

Just write a few simple songs on a Britney spears level, and then just play them connected to each other as one song.. And to be really cool; play the same part of any song a few times in different parts of the rest. What also helps is a singer who can pull a Whitney Houston.

More serious, try to write like you're telling a story and figure out what the main theme/melody is and make it return in different keys or rythms. Also, 2 parts that may seem totally different can be connected by writing the right bridge.

[jollygiantchris]

Do jazz explorations in front of festival seating if your 2nd lead guitar player quits.

[Mark Latimour]

Buy a cape.

[Nashrakh]

Originally Posted by Mark Latimour

Buy a cape.

And a wizard hat.

Agreed on lots mentioned here. Odd time signatures, etc. Also, try your hardest to make music that no one else but musicians listen to. That way you play for 20 years, then finally gain commercial success when you put out your 'Shredding 101' DVD.

Seriously, though. Do your best to avoid songs that just sound like a bunch of parts strung together in order of playing difficulty. Music like this can get really tedious after a while. Ask even the most die-hard Dream Theater fan. They've all hit the Fast Forward Button many times. And if they say they haven't, they're lying.

Listen to bands like Porcupine Tree, Riverside, etc. They are considered 'progressive rock' bands, but IMO their music is very 'listenable,' especially to non-musicians. For the harder stuff, there's always Mastodon, Tool, etc. Lots of hooks and memorable parts in that stuff. And check out Kansas. A lot of their songs have multiple parts, but they all seem to 'fit' together flawlessly and lend themselves to the overall cohesiveness of the songs.

AVOID, let me repeat . . . AVOID guitar-driven prog rock like the plague. I can tell a guitard-ruled prog rock band from a mile away. B O R I N G ! ! Go back to Berkeley and impress your friends, Mr. Shredomatic!! I want to listen to MUSIC, not get a lesson in chord theory or arpeggios.

Listen closely to Symphony X. Yes, Mike Romeo can shred his a__ off, but Symphony X is NOT a guitard band. Their music is of a whole. All the parts fit nicely together, and nothing is thrown in just to 'mix things up' or make it more technical. The neo-classical thing is nothing new, but Symphony X does it extremely well. IMO, they're probably the best neo-classical metal/prog band out there. And Romeo is certainly no stranger to the memorable riff or hook.

Another thing to avoid is doing an extreme metal/prog type thing ala Between the Buried and Me or something like that. There's way too much of it in metal-land, and it's getting old really fast.

But then again . . . do what you want to do. If it works for you, then go for it.

BTW - IMO, playing in odd time signatures really helps one's timing in a universal sense. I often write in odd time signatures, and laugh when run-of-the-mill hard rock/metal or indie types glaze over into a stupor because they've never played in 7/8 or 5/8.

[Unrepresented]

My project is slowly shifting into a more proggy direction.

We keep finding ourselves going for less conventional choices in terms of time signatures, chord progressions, and general songwriting strategies. It's not an intention to become "more progressive" but I think we're starting to write more for musicians (ourselves) than for pop purposes.

[Leftybass12]

Originally Posted by jhan

Agreed on lots mentioned here. Odd time signatures, etc. Also, try your hardest to make music that no one else but musicians listen to. That way you play for 20 years, then finally gain commercial success when you put out your 'Shredding 101' DVD.

Seriously, though. Do your best to avoid songs that just sound like a bunch of parts strung together in order of playing difficulty. Music like this can get really tedious after a while. Ask even the most die-hard Dream Theater fan. They've all hit the Fast Forward Button many times. And if they say they haven't, they're lying.

Listen to bands like Porcupine Tree, Riverside, etc. They are considered 'progressive rock' bands, but IMO their music is very 'listenable,' especially to non-musicians. For the harder stuff, there's always Mastodon, Tool, etc. Lots of hooks and memorable parts in that stuff. And check out Kansas. A lot of their songs have multiple parts, but they all seem to 'fit' together flawlessly and lend themselves to the overall cohesiveness of the songs.

AVOID, let me repeat . . . AVOID guitar-driven prog rock like the plague. I can tell a guitard-ruled prog rock band from a mile away. B O R I N G ! ! Go back to Berkeley and impress your friends, Mr. Shredomatic!! I want to listen to MUSIC, not get a lesson in chord theory or arpeggios.

Listen closely to Symphony X. Yes, Mike Romeo can shred his a__ off, but Symphony X is NOT a guitard band. Their music is of a whole. All the parts fit nicely together, and nothing is thrown in just to 'mix things up' or make it more technical. The neo-classical thing is nothing new, but Symphony X does it extremely well. IMO, they're probably the best neo-classical metal/prog band out there. And Romeo is certainly no stranger to the memorable riff or hook.

Another thing to avoid is doing an extreme metal/prog type thing ala Between the Buried and Me or something like that. There's way too much of it in metal-land, and it's getting old really fast.

But then again . . . do what you want to do. If it works for you, then go for it.

BTW - IMO, playing in odd time signatures really helps one's timing in a universal sense. I often write in odd time signatures, and laugh when run-of-the-mill hard rock/metal or indie types glaze over into a stupor because they've never played in 7/8 or 5/8.

Wow, I was not expecting that much help. Thank you!! BTW, what is guitar driven prog rock? Essentially Dream Theater currently?

[thudfromafar]

http://www.cracked.com/funny-2359-progressive-rock/

[rhobe]

My former band also played 'progressive' rock but a bit in our own way i guess..
Here's a small compilation of a gig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYbMbJi9ANc