Marketing and the BOX it sticks you in.

[88persuader]

Reading through some threads like the "How long can you handle Blues" thread made me think about marketing. The BOX you get STUCK in when you play music. ......... Or for that fact most things in life.

In regard to music ... we're expected to look, act and think a certian way depending on the style of music we play. If you're a blues nut you're probably going to use Fender guitars or hollow body guitars ... the older, the more classic, the more MOJO the better. Jazz players tend to use more exotic instruments and the 6 string players often use Gibson hollow body guitars, and they usually wear them high, hard rockers play a lot of cheaper solid body black guitars and wear there guitars someplace around their nuts. Then you have the goth rockers, the NEW WAVE rockers, the PROG rockers, they all are very neatly packaged in their box. In the music business if you don't properly fit one of these BOXES you don't tend to work or get signed.

Several years back, late 80's I was in an all original prog-rock/fusion band trying to get signed. The bands that influnenced us were Chick Corea and Return to Forever (jazz), ELP, Gentle Giant, King Crimson,(Prog-rock) Led Zepp (rock) and Tull. (rock/folk rock) We sent out a bunch of TAPES we did in the studio in Boston and got some very good feedback. (We never got signed) Most producers didn't get back to us but one BIG producer to our surprise who actually got back to us was Todd Rundgren. And he said he though the musicianship was great and the band showed promise but we simply played too many styles to be marketable. Some songs sounded like rock, some sounded like fusion jazz, some sounded like prog-rock and some sounded like everything depending on the part of the song you listened too. We DIDN'T FIT neatly into a marketable BOX. He more or less told us to PICK A STYLE ... figure out what we wanted to be marketed as and send him another tape. He said ... "When people go to buy shoes they want to buy two sneakers or two oxfords. They DON'T want to buy one sneaker and one oxford." Ever wonder why if you like an album/cd a sucessful band puts out you'll probably like everything the band does? Ever wonder why after the success of Dark Side of the Moon other Pink Floyd recordings sounded a lot like it? Marketing ... they make sure they use the same formula that worked on their successful recordings for the follow-up recordings because it's probably going to mean future success. They stay in the BOX they fit in, all successful bands do with very few exceptions. They dress the right way, they act the right way, they have the right look and attitude and they don't venture far from the strict bounds of their BOX.

I totally understand WHY this has happened in the industry but as a working musician I don't like it. I enjoy playing ALL styles and when I'm on a gig or in a band it doesn't take me long to feel BOXED in style wise. I WISH i could be happy playing blues all night, or jazz, or prog-rock, but even playing a complex style gets old after a while.

I don't know where this flow of thought is going in regard to a question for the forum ... but I though it was an interesting idea that I haven't really seen come up here.

What do you guys (and gals) think about it? How do you feel about marketing? Personally I understand WHY we have it but I also feels it kills creativity and imagination.

[Jezz8me]

the bassline is the easiest part to swich the genre on its head with. You put a jazz walking bassline in a rock song or you do a reggae bassline in a ballad. Just mix arround with your style and you can make a new origional sounding thing without playing one genre and still fitting in to "prog rock" or "death metal" or, what the hell even "shoe gaze"

[Lazylion]

Originally Posted by 88persuader

Reading through some threads like the "How long can you handle Blues" thread made me think about marketing. The BOX you get STUCK in when you play music...
What do you guys (and gals) think about it? How do you feel about marketing? Personally I understand WHY we have it but I also feels it kills creativity and imagination.

+1 it absolutely does. On the other hand, it encourages band members to put out solo albums.
In the late 60s it seemed to me that a band could do almost any kind of song. The Beatles were always doing something different. But that was gradually squashed by greed. These days you get whole albums of sameness. I can rarely make it through a whole album these days.

[jady]

It's the difference between music as an artistic expression and music as a marketable product. If you want a record deal you need to think of the latter, It isnt just music either, most successful companies have a niche they serve, once that company is established they can branch out but who would go to a whipped cream, cat and vacuum cleaner store? Pick one and stick to it.

I too enjoy many different styles but that is why I am in many different bands, each with it's own sound.

[Wesley R]

Sit at a dealership and watch who buys what. Chances are three demographics four at the most for a particular model. The manufacturers and the marketing people know this and work well together to get to who they are targeting.

I was once told the Mick Jaegger (sp) and Gart Brooks were both marketing majors.

Best of Luck,
Wesley R.

[jady]

Originally Posted by Wesley R

I was once told the Mick Jaegger (sp) and Gart Brooks were both marketing majors.

I heard the same thing about Chuck D (Public Enemy)

[MakiSupaStar]

Yep. It sad but true. You would have been better off splitting those songs into other side projects and collectively coming to a sound. But this is before the resurgence of jam bands. Nowadays you can be a jamband and play a lot of different styles. However, I'm currently starting a band that is strictly one style (Dub reggae). I'm finding that it is easier to get gigs as well as players interested in the project than my jamband. Funny that.

[88persuader]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Yep. It sad but true. You would have been better off splitting those songs into other side projects and collectively coming to a sound. But this is before the resurgence of jam bands. Nowadays you can be a jamband and play a lot of different styles. However, I'm currently starting a band that is strictly one style (Dub reggae). I'm finding that it is easier to get gigs as well as players interested in the project than my jamband. Funny that.

Well remember ... WE invented the BOX! Some people are more comfortable understanding and living within one style and set of expectations. Not everyone needs or can even handle musical experimentation. Some musicians, some PEOPLE are original thinkers but most are followers and are more comfortable latching on to something that already exist and playing and writing within that style. We all live with and are products of these styles of music ... creating an actual NEW style is highly unlikely and very rare however some of us want to at least TRY to discover something new .... Others want nothing to do with it. For me the BOX is uncomfortable and feels too SMALL .... for many it's cozy and makes life simple.

[Spoiled Grape]

Most bands that don't stick to their formula/marketing/box end up getting dropped from their label.

Proof? Fishbone.

[88persuader]

Originally Posted by Spoiled Grape

Most bands that don't stick to their formula/marketing/box end up getting dropped from their label.

Proof? Fishbone.

1000000% true. Imagination is sacrificed for the sake of business. There's a HUGE difference between music as an art form and the "music business." The ONLY person I've ever seen to get away with playing many different styles and retain his recording contract AND his following is Joe Jackson! He's done new wave/punk, dance, big band and classical and still sells. One thing he DOES do is if he makes a CD of big band the WHOLE CD is big band, if he makes a CD of new wave/punk (like "is she really going out with him" or "Look Sharp") the whole CD is the same style. But from one CD to the next he changes style but keeps his recording contracts and his following. Definitely an exception to the rule though.