Monk - an idiot?

[PlanetEarth]

Regarding a book review on NPR yesterday - a book about Monk, one of the statements made during the interview with the author was (quoting loosely) "Monk was not the genius we all think he was, we discovered early on he studied music, learned to read, and have isolated the influences of xxx, yyy, and zzz in his music". HUH? So is this to say genius is validated only by ignorance?

Interestingly enough, the day before there was a review of a book about Shakespeare, again the premise seemed to be to somehow discredit the works by bringing to light propaganda about questionable behaviors in his personal life. HUH? As if discovering, I dunno, he liked little boys, makes the work suddenly garbage?

Just thinking out loud....

-PE

[LilRay]

Did Monk play a Roscoe?








PE, I dunno why you placed this in the Roscoe thread as opposed to OT?

God Bless, Ray

[Gard]

Originally Posted by LilRay

Did Monk play a Roscoe?








PE, I dunno why you placed this in the Roscoe thread as opposed to OT?

God Bless, Ray

No, he didn't.

Not really an OT thread, but Miscellaneous definitely, so off it goes!

[BurningSkies]

Just because someone isn't a genius, it doesn't make them an idiot.

Take a look around you, there's lots and lots of middle ground.

[VroomVroom]

Taking a guess here...I suspect OP chose the Roscoe forum because of the sense of community there. If we're that strict, I think it's fair to mention that Drew Brees and other NFL players probably don't work their magic on Roscoes either. Just sayin'.

[LilRay]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Taking a guess here...I suspect OP chose the Roscoe forum because of the sense of community there. If we're that strict, I think it's fair to mention that Drew Brees and other NFL players probably don't work their magic on Roscoes either. Just sayin'.

Your right Jerry, I guess I shouldn't have said anything.

I feel right at home with the Roscoe community and I don't own one

Apologies to you PE, I meant no disrespect or offense, please don't take it that way. Sorry for being rude.

Monk's definately no idiot, but you can find those wishing to tear one down from their achievements every day.

God Bless, Ray

[paganjack]

I heard the NPR thing too, but what they said was that he was not the "uneducated genius" people often say he was. He HAD piano training- he didn't just pull stuff totally out of thin air. He was taught how to play Rachmaninoff, Chopin and others. They were not saying he was not a genius. He DEFINITELY was. Come on.

Shakespeare is a whole different story- some believe Sir Francis Bacon wrote the plays, etc. etc. Lots of conjecture since it was so long ago.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by PlanetEarth

Regarding a book review on NPR yesterday - a book about Monk, one of the statements made during the interview with the author was (quoting loosely) "Monk was not the genius we all think he was, we discovered early on he studied music, learned to read, and have isolated the influences of xxx, yyy, and zzz in his music". HUH? So is this to say genius is validated only by ignorance?
-PE

No, but I think there IS a tendency when some folks discuss black jazz musicians to marginalize their hard work by classing them almost as "idiot savants". As far as the generalization of this particular author, most jazz musicians of my acquaintance were already aware of Monk's myriad influences and the level of work involved in his development. When he says "we all", he's talking about the folks who can't seem to get past all the dancing at the piano type shenanigans; again Monk as crazy black man whose talent "jest growed"....

[Matt Dean]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

No, but I think there IS a tendency when some folks discuss black jazz musicians to marginalize their hard work by classing them almost as "idiot savants". As far as the generalization of this particular author, most jazz musicians of my acquaintance were already aware of Monk's myriad influences and the level of work involved in his development. When he says "we all", he's talking about the folks who can't seem to get past all the dancing at the piano type shenanigans; again Monk as crazy black man whose talent "jest growed"....

+1...

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by LilRay

PE, I dunno why you placed this in the Roscoe thread as opposed to OT?

For the most part, rarely do I visit any other forums on talkbass, I only come here because the Roscoe forum is here, thus, why I post whatever there, Roscoe related or not - though I do try to be conservative about the later.

Anyway - zippin` it - no sense talking if no-one's listening....

And Gard - shame on you for conforming....

Peace!
-PE

[Gard]

Originally Posted by PlanetEarth

For the most part, rarely do I visit any other forums on talkbass, I only come here because the Roscoe forum is here, thus, why I post whatever there, Roscoe related or not - though I do try to be conservative about the later.

Anyway - zippin` it - no sense talking if no-one's listening....

And Gard - shame on you for conforming....

Peace!
-PE

Hey, I just wanted to get the thread more of an audience!



...sorry, it wasn't really a violation of anything on the Roscoe forum...if you want to move it back, I'll get in touch with one of the Misc Mods and have 'em scoot it back down into the basement...

[billy ayers]

lordy lou, some of these folks on the air make the birthers seem like nobel prize nominees.
monk studied piano and music theory, naturally.
you can't play or write jazz, or solo on your own and someone else's tunes for several decades (as monk did) without a working knowledge of theory and keyboard technique.
is the NPR-droid implying that monk just laid his hands on the keys like a precocious child, and managed to make jazzy little sounds?
"ruby my dear" is pretty f***** skillful WRITING, if you ask me. sorta comes outta that billy eckstine, cole porter school of optimistically melancholy NYC night-time jazz writing. beautiful changes, deceptively sophisticated. and that's just one of MANY monk tunes.

those who can't do, teach. those who can't do either are professional critics (secretly wishing they could do either one, but because they lack the skills, honesty and cojones, simply spend their time seeking out forums to snipe at others).. oops, sorry, didn't mean to reference cheney, there.

[WalterBush]

Am I the only one who thought this thread was about the character in the TV show for the first few posts?


I've heard lots of guests on NPR shows that sound as if they are simply trying to sound smarter than the person next to them. They're critics with no real working knowledge of how music is made. I've heard them glorify folk singers with average talent on Weekend Edition while marginalizing some of music's greatest innovators as nothing special, just someone in the right place at the right time. It makes no sense, and it probably never will.

Yet somehow, the station that carries NPR progamming in town is the only station that plays jazz regularly...again, doesn't make sense.

[Jazz Ad]

Maybe Monk wasn't a genius and just played stuff randomly on the keys.
If this is true, then I'd say he was a very lucky idiot to stumble on what he got.

[PlanetEarth]

Originally Posted by Gard

Hey, I just wanted to get the thread more of an audience!
...sorry, it wasn't really a violation of anything on the Roscoe forum...if you want to move it back, I'll get in touch with one of the Misc Mods and have 'em scoot it back down into the basement...

All good, I'm mostly just bustin` ya ballz... And ultimately you're right - it did become active once it moved here so.... Good call!!

[superbassman2000]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

No, but I think there IS a tendency when some folks discuss black jazz musicians to marginalize their hard work by classing them almost as "idiot savants". As far as the generalization of this particular author, most jazz musicians of my acquaintance were already aware of Monk's myriad influences and the level of work involved in his development. When he says "we all", he's talking about the folks who can't seem to get past all the dancing at the piano type shenanigans; again Monk as crazy black man whose talent "jest growed"....

well put

I think that the author is showing more signs of ignorance than anyone else...It sounds like he was going into the research stage of his book thinking that Monk was just blinding tapping away at keys, in which case he only proved himself wrong. well, at least it'll save me a book to read

as for the Shakespeare part, that's just a marketing ploy to sell books...

[MichaelScott]

Is there anything good on NPR anymore? Seems like 4 years ago it turned to complete crud and I want to barf whenever I hear it.

[Munjibunga]

Did you know Tony Shalhoub also played Jeebs in "Men in Black"?

[WalterBush]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Did you know Tony Shalhoub also played Jeebs in "Men in Black"?

And the snack bar guy in "Wings," and some character acting in video games and B-grade movies. He's done an excellent job in everything he's done, except playing jazz piano, apparently

[Jluckie3]

Originally Posted by VroomVroom

Taking a guess here...I suspect OP chose the Roscoe forum because of the sense of community there. If we're that strict, I think it's fair to mention that Drew Brees and other NFL players probably don't work their magic on Roscoes either. Just sayin'.

drew brees plays lakland