Moses and Hambone

[Hambone]

Some of you may have seen my posts in "Basses" concerning the two Moses Graphite necks I had sent from Musicians Friend only to have them each arrive with broken fretboard extensions. The last one didn't arrive like that - it was shipped like that by some idiot clerk that simply relabeled a damaged returned item and sent it to me as new.

I was lucky to have Steve Moses step in and agree to fix the neck I had in hand. I sent him the neck about 3 weeks ago and today, it arrived back here in a "repaired" state supposedly ready for me to use. I only wish that were the case. Rather than run down the list of problems, I'll just post my letter to Steve so you can read it. It pretty much says it all...

Steve

Got the neck in today. Thanx for the work, especially when you didn't have to.

I can't begin to express my disappointment at the quality of workmanship that was applied to this neck. As the neck is now it is not playable and that was the reason it was sent to you for repair. This being my first experience with Moses Graphite Necks it was important to me that things work out and I was really hoping they would. They haven't and there are several problems -

- Both of the last 2 frets - the frets that were on the extension that was broken off - are not seated properly and have raised ends to the point that they are visibly out of level with the adjacent frets. This wouldn't be so much of a problem to a skilled technician as myself except that the frets slots have BEEN FILLED IN UNDER THE FRETS making it impossible to reseat them in the slot. The frets will have to be removed, the slots cleaned out of the excess resin, and then refretted to match the others.

- The extension itself has been reattached with gobs of resin to the point that the underside of the fretboard is now out of level with the bottom surface of the neck heel. This means that if the neck were to be installed, the extension would overhang the body and be closer to the top on one side than the other. This is a perfectly obvious condition to anyone that looks.

- The neck extension has been re-attached so that it droops off the end of the fretboard. How this happened is anybody's guess when the parts and pieces of the original break were so clean that they could be fitted together without a visible seam and be perfectly flat and in line with the fretboard. Now it just sags, especially on the bass side. Again, a perfectly visible condition to someone with quality in their minds.

- This is a Music Man 5 string neck. Music Man 5 string necks are supposed to have 6 mounting bolts. When I returned the neck, I pointed out on a note taped to the fretboard that the neck didn't come with any of the mounting hardware as it should nor did it come with a nut blank as it should. When I got it back it came with (4) mounting bolts and no nut blank. Again, not much of problem for a skilled technician but I really shouldn't have to supply these items myself.

This level of workmanship is beyond crappy. Crappy is a cheap imported, lowbuck, knock-off designed to steal market share from a high quality established product. Your work on this neck doesn't reach that level. In this case, it was an opportunity to impress an independent builder, and show Musicians Friend and the followers of the threads describing the situation on Talkbass that Moses Graphite stood behind it's product in the worst of situations and that one could rely on your workmanship and quality. That has proven to be patently untrue. You are a disgrace to luthiery arts to have designed and produced such an innovative product and then support it in this way. It shows that you don't care about your product or your clients, or your reputation as a leader in the aftermarket parts field. I don't think anything could be worse for someone in your position. Because of my own experience with your product, I am seeing and hearing many other bad experiences with your necks and it is becoming clear by the nature of these stories that you are no longer suited to this vocation. Now would be a good time to assess just what it is you are attempting to accomplish because if it's shoddy work like this, then just farm it out to the vo-tech school down the street and call it a day. We deserve better.

Allan Hamilton
Hambone Custom Basses

If anyone wants to see pics of this debacle, I can post them. I'm going out to the shop now and contemplate my next course of action with this pig. I was very, very close to not sending this neck back and just doing the repair myself. I could fit the parts together perfectly and was damned tempted to glue up the pieces and let'er ride. In retrospect, that probably wasn't too bad an idea.

[MJ5150]

Bummer deal Hambone. I don't know much about Moses necks, but I trust your opinions. Thank you for the heads up.

-Mike

[Gard]

...Hammy....man....

....I ain't never sendin' you anything that ain't dead-on perfect, 'cuz you fight dirty!



It really sucks that you went through that.

[bassybill]

Hambone - don't know how this would fit in with your order book, and I suspect there may well be a difference in pricing, what with the strong pound against the dollar etc etc, BUT... Status Graphite products are the business. I have a Status S2 bass (my 2nd Status after being forced financially to sell my first 16 years ago) and two Status necks on my Jazz basses (1 fretted, 1 fretless) and believe me, Rob Green's stuff just reeks of quality and attention to detail. I can recommend you talk to him if he's anywhere near your price levels for a graphite neck. I would pay $1000 to replace either of mine if I had to... I wouldn't want anything less on my instruments. Just my views as someone who put these together for myself, I do understand that your situation is a whole lot different to mine!

Bill

[Kelly Lee]

Sorry to hear of the continuing dissapointment with Moses and the Moses neck.

I hope you have decided to not use that neck at all now. I sure wouldn't just out of principle. If you fix it and make it right and use it on a bass some people might actually think the Moses neck is quality stuff. They won't see the crap you had to go through just to make it playable. It also makes me wonder what problems might develop with it down the road considering the pathetic initial quality.

Moses=

[incognito89x]

Certainly sounds like you dealt with much more hassle than you should've. I'd like to see the pics just out of morbid curiosity as to how bad it really was.

[Josh Ryan]

Let us know how Moses responds.

[tekhna]

I'd also like to hear his response. I am very grateful now I did not waste my 200 dollars eevn when they were on clearance.

[Hambone]

I want to answer to each of you because, curiously, all of you have touched on a different aspect of the problem. I hope to discuss this not only as a small builder (way small) but also as just a regular customer that's due a square deal. I realize my situation is somewhat different in that my repair was gratis and for that Moses should be congratulated - Steve stepped up when there was absolutely no need to as far as I know since I'm not privy to any dealings he's had with MF. Since MF and Moses no longer have a relationship (directly from MF bigwig) it should be looked at even more favorably. That's where my charity ends though. Somewhere, the buck has to stop and someone has to stand up and say "No more second best, no more 'this'll do', no more getting by" and do the right thing.





I must get completely serious here...I am often completely shrouded in self doubt and loathing concerning my own bass building. That cloud will well up and is as tangible and real as a thunderstorm in July. Some of this is due to a continuing struggle with depression but most of it comes from a more recent revelation that a lot of what I have pointed to as accomplishments in life just haven't measured up. Though my experiences have been varied and interesting, the results have always been second rate. And now that I'm in middle age and seeing the end of a not so great career with a hopeful start at bass building, I fear making the same mistakes that give me this bleak outlook on my past. Hence, I've become critical of this in others. Call it part of my own rehabilitation. I want so much to make good instruments and to keep my clients happy. I can list people like Gard who, in his business dealings, absolutely NO ONE has a bad word to say about and I want to be one of those types of builders even if I am building crap. So there.


MJ5150, Thanx for the support but I want to make it perfectly clear - I have not mounted nor played this neck. I cannot legitimately comment on how well it's suited to it's intended use. Moses necks might be the absolute king daddy rat but that remains to be seen. I've got a cool design for this but it's got plenty of work left before it see's the light of day.

Gard, I would hope that the view from your position would fall on the side of the customer and outrageous service. In this case, ordinary "tending to" would have been sufficient to keep me happy. Notice my patience and willingness to "play clean" with the earlier foulups where it was just as easy to keep blasting away. I pulled back and let things happen. When they did, all that were involved got credit and I made sure. And dead on perfect isn't what I needed. Hell man, this was a $199 MF'n blow out neck. All I really wanted was something that wasn't broken and was ready to play. Neither of the two entities involved have been able to provide it. My tone is just my style and Steve isn't the first to suffer one of my "letters". And I've never been afraid to burn any bridge behind OR ahead of me!

Bassybill, believe it or not, graphite wasn't even in the picture until MF threw these things in the closeout bin. My only experience with graphite were awful Modulus's at Mars Music (BAD experience), and some very sensual Zon's I've been able to paw at some of the GTG's - GOOD experience! I've had too many other problems with my own neck construction to think about the graphites but at this price...

Kelly, Unfortunately, I have to build right now just to supplement my income. Any investment of this size - $200 - has got to be recouped somehow or it would sink me. That's just the breaks. But I'm with you in principle.

Incog, I'll put the pics in my gallery after I get them edited to size. I had to shoot macro and I don't know which are too out of focus to use. I'm going to be in and out so it will probably be tomorrow. They are illustrative though

[Kelly Lee]

Well Hambone I can understand the expense and needing to use it. I really hope you can get that neck to work out. Alot of people (including myself) would have thrown in the towel on that neck. When you get it fixed, you should consider it a sign of your skill and be very proud of it!

[Gard]

Gard, I would hope that the view from your position would fall on the side of the customer and outrageous service. In this case, ordinary "tending to" would have been sufficient to keep me happy. Notice my patience and willingness to "play clean" with the earlier foulups where it was just as easy to keep blasting away. I pulled back and let things happen. When they did, all that were involved got credit and I made sure. And dead on perfect isn't what I needed. Hell man, this was a $199 MF'n blow out neck. All I really wanted was something that wasn't broken and was ready to play. Neither of the two entities involved have been able to provide it. My tone is just my style and Steve isn't the first to suffer one of my "letters". And I've never been afraid to burn any bridge behind OR ahead of me!

Brother, preach on!



Trust me, I'm definitely on the side you are on, I was just makin' a joke!!!

No one is absolutely perfect, but trust me, I personally, and the people I work for will move mountains to make a customer happy with a bass. That said, in some cases, no matter how much you do to please a customer, they just don't want to be pleased - you my friend are not that guy right now. I know you had a target that needed to be hit, and that target was well within the realm of reasonable expectation. It wasn't hit, and I'm really curious as to what kind of response you'll get.

Your letter was a bit "tough", but hey, you had a right to be disappointed. From what I've read here, I'd be pretty bent out of shape myself. As some folks know, I am not exactly afraid to "speak my mind" when something is not right...(...when is a knot not a knot? )

[Hambone]

Thanx Gard,


Pics are up here:

Moses Repair

[bassybill]

Thanks Hambone for taking the trouble to reply to each point. My earlier reply about Status necks was really down to my desire to give credit to somebody who's on the other side of the coin to what you were talking about. Like you, I say what I find to be the case and I will point out instances where I think as a customer I've had a bad deal because of people letting standards down. But I'm also keen to share whatever good experiences I have and my dealings with Rob Green at Status definitely come into that category. Quality and service count for such a lot.

On a more general note, FWIW, I think you're going about your change of direction exactly the right way, having changed horses "mid-stream" myself. As the cliche goes, we all make mistakes... but it makes sense to avoid making them twice! That's why it's good to hear you tackling your work as a builder in such a positive fashion. I wish you every success.

Bill

[Kelly Lee]

Just checked out the pics. Wow ,what can I say other than "what were they thinking?"

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by Gard

Your letter was a bit "tough"

After viewing the neck pics, I'm thinking the letter was right on. Imo it's best to take the direct approach rather than sugar coat things. That "repair" was piss poor at best, and someone needs to tell them in a fashion they can understand.

Hambone, keep us up to date on Moses' response.

[Hambone]

Bassy, Thanx for the understanding. I can do nothing but agree with you over the Status necks from what I've seen. They certainly make an attractive neck. That isn't a slam in any way. In fact, putting a pretty face on a product with a high degree of technology involved in it's development is like paying for your daughters wedding - it's an act of love that isn't necessary but shows a dedication to the creation.

Mike, "tell them in a fashion they can understand" - I would like to shake your hand because I think you really understand me. I am polite to everyone - it's an important social skill and I can't get along without it. Within that politeness and maybe because of my lack of education, I've found that I quickly run out of words and phrases (and patience ) that get across my desire to have things made right. And usually I don't ask for these things simply as a stompfooted demand like a 3 year old. I try to appeal to the contrary party's sense of value's, like I think all conscious humans aspire to. Unfortunately in these days of PC and the decline of excellence in everything, I usually get looked at with a blank stare. That response usually draws the type of salvo you see here.

[Mike N]

Originally Posted by Hambone

Mike, "tell them in a fashion they can understand" - I would like to shake your hand because I think you really understand me. I am polite to everyone - it's an important social skill and I can't get along without it. Within that politeness and maybe because of my lack of education, I've found that I quickly run out of words and phrases (and patience ) that get across my desire to have things made right. And usually I don't ask for these things simply as a stompfooted demand like a 3 year old. I try to appeal to the contrary party's sense of value's, like I think all conscious humans aspire to. Unfortunately in these days of PC and the decline of excellence in everything, I usually get looked at with a blank stare. That response usually draws the type of salvo you see here.

Hambone, I'd like to shake your hand for writing the letter you did and telling them how it is.

[Martybass]

I was going get a Moses neck. Now I'm not sure...but hey! it's not all bad, just realised it's cheaper to get a Status neck straight from their site than it is to get a Moses from Allparts UK. Now to save some money...

Thanks for the heads up Hambone, I hope they compensate for your discontent.

[Groovecenter]

Hambone- first off I applaud your sense of dedication to perfection, it's something that's not often seen anymore, especially not in something like bass luthiery, where a lot of customers will gloss over a problem on their "new baby" just as readily as most manufacturers will more than likely NOT step up and make things right.

People with personalities like yours and to some extent mine (Im not one for burning a bridge usually, unless I feel things are no longer worth the trouble, such as in this case with Moses) usually get looked at as a-holes, but were it not for people like you who would stick it to companies and people like Moses?

Had someone less technically gifted and without an eye for detail (although the wreckage of that neck wouldn't take much of an eye to see) gotten the neck and installed it somewhat incorrectly what support would they have gotten? Atleast now the buyer can beware and Steve moses might have to think about just what he's doing with his buisness and support methodology.

I look forward to seeing his response and ask that you post it if/when he writes back, much love to you for not taking the polite road with this guy.

[Jonki]

not the best repair i've seen, not proffesional either.

but **** happens, you got my support, Hambone.