Need advice for a 12'er (Guitard content)

Mr_Sore_Fingerz · #1 01-06-2009, 12:29 PM

I know many people on here play guitar in addition to playing bass (it's fun, who cares?) so I trust you guys over ultimate-guitar forums ANY day...

So I've always been a fan of the Byrds ever since I was a kid and love Roger McGuinn's playing style. I realize a lot of his sound comes from both his 12-string rickenbacker and a massive amount of compression into a hot tube amp but what I need help on is the 12-string. I have a vox valvetronix and the tone i can get out of my les paul with it is nice, but I think the 12 will make it satisfactory for me.

Any advice on some non-rics? If I had the money I'd buy the 360-12 string in a heartbeat but so far the closest thing I've found near my price range is this:

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/p...tar?sku=514446

Anyone know of *gulp* some ric knockoffs I could buy and replace the pickups on? It's so hard to come by a 12'er with singles in it for some reason

P. Aaron · #2 01-06-2009, 01:45 PM

A few years back there were Mosrite 12-string re-issues that looked well made,looked attractive and seemed sturdy. Ric's can be expensive, and a classic Ric might not be in the most playable condition.

I would look for something new, or newer. With the variety of guitar-bass gear these days, there is so much good, even great stuff to choose from for a reasonable price. Shop your need around, there's enough inventory to sift through before you decide.

With a 12 string though...heck, with any instrument, you have to hold it in your hands to know for sure.

GeoffByrne · #3 01-06-2009, 03:47 PM

I recently bought a Burns Double Six & can highly recommend.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...&content=music

cdef · #4 01-06-2009, 05:03 PM

I always loved McGuinn's sound, too, and tried to emulate it. The Rick has the courses the other way around from other 12-strings, meaning the low octave is on the bass side. But I found the neck too cramped and string changing too fiddly due to the headstock design, so my preference was a Fender Electric XII. I left off the high octave strings on the low E and A to get a less squashed register, which made it a 10-string.

Nowadays you have the Stratocaster XII (MIJ), and this is the one I'd get today.

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargall.../all/sS063235/

AnchorHoy · #5 01-06-2009, 08:32 PM

Another possibility, although hard to find and rather pricey as a result, would be a Gibson ES-335 12-string

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdef

Nowadays you have the Stratocaster XII (MIJ), and this is the one I'd get today

Probably the simplest solution, and less $ than any of the other alternatives. Single-coil pups would make it easier to simulate the Ric 'jangle' too

Bard2dbone · #6 01-07-2009, 07:26 AM

I'd be tempted to get the Italia, just to have one nobodly around you has. But the smart money says that you Strat XII would give you more predictable tones. Either looks like a winner, in their own ways.

The sound you want is best had by getting the Ric. But the best cure for 360/12 GAS is to actually PLAY a 360/12. I love the sound. And they are definitely beautiful. But they are awful to get around on.

Mr_Sore_Fingerz · #7 01-07-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

I'd be tempted to get the Italia, just to have one nobodly around you has. But the smart money says that you Strat XII would give you more predictable tones. Either looks like a winner, in their own ways.

The sound you want is best had by getting the Ric. But the best cure for 360/12 GAS is to actually PLAY a 360/12. I love the sound. And they are definitely beautiful. But they are awful to get around on.

Yeah that Italia looks nice, what I like about it is the two pickups that are close to ric-sized ones. I figure replacing them and having actual ric pickups (which I've found you can buy) would be the best bet in terms of tone.

The playability was something I was worried about as well, seeing as how I've never owned a 12 string guitar, though I've played acoustics that were 12'ers before. Another guys comment said he kept the octaves for his E and A off, making it a 10 string guitar...I might actually find myself making mine a 9-string as I really only want the octaves for my higher strings (thats where most of that jangly sound comes from anyhow).

If I could get my hands on a Ric or Italia, I'd certainly play them but no stores around here have them!!

I'm considering a ric copy or something cheap but the playability might turn me off to it so I might just have to take a gamble on it.

Bard2dbone · #8 01-07-2009, 04:31 PM

Keep as many of the secondary strings as you can. That 12-string sound comes from ALL the pairs, really. If you have to remove extras to get around on it, start small. Maybe just take the E octave and try it for a week. If that's not enough, then take the A octave as well.

Alvarez made a surprisingly cool sounding, though really ugly NINE-string acoustic back in the '80's. I got to play one of the production models back then, and the prototype around '99 or 2000. It was cool because it was so different. And it was a nice bridge between six-string technique and 12-string sound. But if you want a real 12-string sound, you're going to need a real 12-string guitar.

And in stead of going to Ric p'ups. Consider just getting P-90's if you change out the Italia p'ups. There is a lot more versatility to be had. I think the best P90's out there are by Jason Lollar.

Mr_Sore_Fingerz · #9 01-07-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

And in stead of going to Ric p'ups. Consider just getting P-90's if you change out the Italia p'ups. There is a lot more versatility to be had. I think the best P90's out there are by Jason Lollar.

Idk that I would use the Italia for more than some neat Byrdsesque songs or some covers, so you think the Ric p'ups would be a bad bet? I hear they work well because they are low-output, but I had heard from many that rics were like the hottest vintage singles you could buy....really conflicting info

Bard2dbone · #10 01-07-2009, 11:58 PM

Actually I'd heard mixed stuff, too. The only guy I know who bought vintage Ric p'ups to put in a project guitar ended up with bad p'ups. They were horrible. Just really microphonic.

I know they weren't representative of all Ric p'ups. They couldn''t be. But it's hard to get past that first impression. I'd look around for someone who got some good examplaes to learn from.