New eBay Policy and Rules changes - effective Feb 20th

musicelectronix · #1 02-07-2008, 12:24 PM

About two days ago, I recieved an e-mail from Powerseller portal, which informs us the "drastic measures" taken by eBay to protect buyers. Frankly, I am really happy about this changes (other than the obvious cost increase for sellers) and I believe it will help to reduce eBay scams and bad experiences quite a bit. Price increase almost do not effect the sellers with 4.8 or more DSR (detailed seller rating) score for each category after the discounts. The categories are:

item as described
communication
shipping and handling time
shipping and handling fees

For example, if a person tries to charge 20 bucks for a 2-3 lbs pedal (around 7-8 bucks via USPS Priority), he will most likely recieve a lower DSR score on the shipping handling fees category and hence will pay around 15% more final value fee.

seller will not be able to leave negative or neutral feedback to the buyer. No more retaliatory feedbacks from rude and dishonest sellers!

These are just two examples of some obvious benefits of the new policy. Feel free to check out the rest from here.

Official explaination: "eBay buyers want value and selection from sellers they can trust--and good sellers deserve rewards for delivering great customer service. That's why we're making a number of important changes that may affect you"

effective feb 20th, just wanted to share

crkempton · #2 02-07-2008, 12:30 PM

sounds like ebay will be losing some business... as if things weren't confusing enough

Illbay · #3 02-07-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicelectronix

For example, if a person tries to charge 20 bucks for a 2-3 lbs pedal (around 7-8 bucks via USPS Priority), he will most likely recieve a lower DSR score on the shipping handling fees category and hence will pay around 15% more final value fee.

Here's the thing I don't get about selling a used instrument on eBay.

A couple of years back I had two Simon & Patrick guitars that I sold there. I was expecting to get about $350 each. I got around $300. But when I added on the eBay fees, that was about another hundred bucks. I ended up getting around $250 for each guitar, which (according to ads I had seen off eBay) was about $100 less than they were worth.

I suppose you have to "live and learn," but they take their pound of flesh, and no mistake. The last time I sold an instrument - another acoustic guitar - I jolly well added the expected eBay fees into the "shipping and handling" fee, because basically I didn't want to get stuck in that situation again.

I got some complaints: "shipping shouldn't be that much." I honestly replied "it's shipping AND HANDLING. Do you realize how much eBay's gonna charge me?"

I did sell the guitar, and as it happened my shipping and handling just did cover the shipping, AND the Paypal fee (Paypal charges to be able to receive payments, in case you didn't know that), AND the eBay fee, with nothing left over. But at least I didn't feel like I lost on the deal.

**sleepy_monkey** · #4 02-07-2008, 12:45 PM

Ebay is a buy at your own will...think of it like a giant pawn shop.

I will agree that shipping and HANDLING includes my gas to ship it off. If ebay wants to control it that much, they should have you fill in the dimensions of the item, box, weight, etc...

But I also think that if I set my shipping fees before I list the item, then the seller is expecting to pay that anyway...so what does it matter if it only costs me half of what I charged or double......it works both ways.

Puarija · #5 02-07-2008, 01:18 PM

I think it's b.s. that you can't leave a neg for a buyer now. If I state that I need payment in 7 days, and then the guy jerks me around for 2 weeks, I should be able to leave him a negative! I shouldn't have to file a non-paying bidder complaint, but I should have some sort of way to show other sellers that the member isn't a timely paying customer. Now I guess I have to leave him a positive that reads "Took forever to pay me, which was a pain in my ass and I thought he might not pay at all, but thanks to eBay, I have to grin and bear it and give the guy 2 thumbs up! sweet!"

Retaliation goes both ways! I actually wholesale motorcycles for a living, and one of the venues we use to sell our bikes is eBay. Just the other day, some jerk was the winning bidder on a used bike we were selling. He immediately e-mailed and said he didn't want it after all. So we filed a non-paying bidder claim with eBay to try to get our fees back, and then left a negative for having our time and money wasted by the "buyer" only to find the next day that we had a negative left for us by the non-paying bidder with a completely fraudulent complaint listed as his reason for not paying. In order to protect OUR hard-earned reputation, we then had to go the avenue of mutual feedback withdrawal. I hate it that this jerk gets to go on about his business on eBay without anyone knowing to steer clear of him. How many times has he done this to sellers? Who knows!

I also agree that the shipping thing is bogus. So many times I've listed with low or no shipping fees just to be good about it, but about the time I list something with a $20 fee and someone bids knowing that, then finds some backwoods no name shipping company that would've shipped for $10, I shouldn't be penalized for that!

And how could eBay know what MY time is worth for "handling"?

I understand that most of this crap will never actually be enforced or become a problem, but just knowing that it COULD irks me. I've been on eBay for almost 10 years, and I've dealt with all kinds. There are excellent sellers out there where a positive feedback just doesn't seem like enough praise for someone, and there are swindlers out there who bully buyers all day. You get all kinds. But giving sellers no way to show that a bidder is questionable is a poor way of addressing the issue, as far as I'm concerned. Not only that, but it cheapens the positive feedback for the ones that do deserve it.

I've had 2 negative feedbacks in nearly 10 years. One was from a no longer registered user with like a -3 overall (obviously a bad eBayer), and the other was from someone who decided not to read my description where it said PAYPAL ONLY because I needed money in a hurry. He hit a buy it now, then wanted to snail mail me a PERSONAL CHECK. No way. Negative feedback for him. Oh imagine that, he gave me one too! For his mistake? B.S.

Oh well. With all its faults, I still love eBay because it provides exposure you just can't get anywhere else, and by and large most of the people on there are honest and great to work with. It just sucks that a seller's hands are now tied if he has a bad buyer.

If I have something good, I try to offer it here first, but a lot of times I sell misc. crap on there and do alright on the prices. It's always been an imperfect system, and it always will be.

Jake

Figjam · #6 02-07-2008, 01:35 PM

I think the seller should only not be able to leave feedback to the buyer if he/she recieves negative feedback first. Otherwise, this is open season for false bidders.

tmusic101 · #7 02-07-2008, 05:20 PM

I've been a member since January, 2003, & have lately been thinking seriously about closing my account.

Ebay has become a circus! Just this week I had an item to end & had in the listing, plainly printed in large letters: PAYPAL ONLY.

Well the winning bidder emailed me to let me know he would be sending me a MO the following day. I emailed him back telling him that MO wasn't an option & for him to read the listing.

He proceeded to email me back to say "paypal sucks, do you want the MO or not"!

You gotta be kidding me!! When I say PAYPAL ONLY, that's what I mean! Apparently he assumed he could just decide to pay however he liked regardless of my criteria.

The only response I gave was to say NO, I would relist. (he had a feedback of 4).

I'm just tired of all the garbage going on with Ebay, not to mention that there are no bargains left to be had there. When I joined five years ago, you could find some pretty good deals on Ebay, but those days are apparently over.

I think these new regs will be the proverbial straw for me.

bongomania · #8 02-07-2008, 05:29 PM

Yeah, I have been a steady/frequent Ebay user for almost nine years, and I have just about had it. I have always come to Ebay's (and Paypal's) defense saying "if you play by their rules you won't get screwed", but that's becoming less and less true every year. Every year people say Ebay has gone downhill, but this may be the year it has gone too far downhill for me. We'll see.

Spector_Ray · #9 02-07-2008, 05:45 PM

My biggest complaint lately has been how sellers have been raping people on the shipping and handling charges. I work for the USPS and I can ballpark shipping charges. There's a shipping calculator on the website too. The handling is a total crock especially if you're using Priority Mail to ship. You can order the packing materials for free off the website and you can also request a carrier pickup so there's no wasted time and gas going to the post office.

alexit · #10 02-07-2008, 06:03 PM

As someone who buys and sells on ebay, I think these new rules are good. Not a perfect solution, but better than the situation before. I think these changes will help to fix two very big problems:

1. Slow/lazy/fraudulent sellers. There are a TON of sellers on ebay who list backordered items. Everybody knows this kind of seller. They take forever to ship, they go passive/aggressive between apologizing and blaming the buyer for delays, that's if they care to respond at all. If you leave them a negative or neutral feedback you get your own that says "negative deserves negative" or something along those lines. The potential for retaliatory feedback means that even a seller with 99.5% positive feedback you have to play the detective game and scroll through 100 pages of feedback looking for the telltale "GREAT ITEM A+++++ etc............shipping took a tad longer than I expected"

I had to deal with this three times in a row in a 2-month stretch, and it completely RUINED my buying confidence on ebay. I've only bought one or two things in the past 12 months and both were from sellers that I had dealt with before or knew about from some outside source.

2. Item significantly not as described - affects buyer confidence for the same reasons, retaliatory feedback when the seller misrepresents an item. For a $20 item, the buyer will likely spend a few hours in total on a bitter return dispute, and all they have to show for it is $20 (minus shipping) and a big ugly negative feedback.

I'm neutral on shipping fees - I know putting a "handling" charge on something can be justified if it's an item that requires a lot of extra work like a motorcycle. I know ebay gives sellers the shaft on half.com with an "averaged" shipping reimbursement that is always far below the actual cost. I also know that a lot of petty buyers may rate lower on shipping because they have no idea what it actually costs, which may set sellers up to have to reduce shipping to try and protect their nest egg. BUT I don't think ebay are trying to screw anyone over here, they are just trying to make it so sellers won't circumvent their fees with high shipping charges. I think that buyers are really getting the short end on fees, and many "handling" charges are also junk for the same reasons spector_Ray mentioned.

None of this is unreasonable. I still don't think ebay is any kind of "good guy" now, these changes are obviously put in place to increase buyer confidence and reduce fee circumnavigation, putting more money in their pockets. But there are a lot more drawn-out and difficult methods they could have gone about doing this. I know that with this in place, I'll feel a lot more comfortable buying on ebay.

musicelectronix · #11 02-07-2008, 06:14 PM

Well, being an eBay seller with 500 plus 100% rating and almost perfect track record, I wasn't happy about eBay either. Here is my dilemma:

I recently purchased a digitech grunge pedal and when it came, two of the bottom screws were missing and it wasn't working. I immediately contacted the seller and he told me it worked fine (one of the I-sell-stuff-for-you businesses). Eventhough I suspect if he was capable of testing it, I decided to eat it and opened it up. I saw someone tried to mod the pedal (which is a hybrid SMD and thru hole design.. Everybody is an electronics tech these days!!!) and literally burned some of the components with I guessing soldering iron. Also the genius removed the small tactile switch and I guess in the hopes of making the pedal true bypass. There is no way that this pedal was in working order when it was shipped. In my frustration, I contacted the seller again and told that I am a pedal builder and my above observations.

He CALLED me and started swearing, shouting, giving the "who-the-f...-are-you-to-call-me-a-liar" attitude, etc. I hang up, cooled down a min and then called him back. Anyway, he offered me a refund less shipping costs. I paid 25 bucks and the shipping was 15 bucks. Add this my return shipping, I would end up loosing 20 bucks out of nowhere!!

And the funny part is, if I leave neg feedback, I know he will leave one for me too, so I didn't. Why would I wreck my perfect track record over some swearing, lying bully. He got away with it. Probably, his customer gave it to him to list it and told him it worked fine and that's the end of the story.

eBay becoming an unbearable place on daily basis. I search for "boss" and I get everything from knobs (china) to "almost as good as boss" - "digitech not boss". eBay sellers do not care about their customers and neg feedback is NOTHING! Maybe this way, it will become a better place with honest people. I am 100% behind new rules.

Another example, you go ahead and win something for a price that is below the market price. Seller says he ships it, you don't recieve in ten days. ask seller why?, he says "it must have been lost, let me give you a full refund" at the mean time, he lists the exact same thing again. I can give him neg, because I know he will do the same. eBay is like that it can go over the market value or below. It is an AUCTION site. If you don't like it, do not take the chance and don'T list anything there. That's why I try to purchase my gear from here.

Ps. IMO, Dishonest sellers are a lot more than Deadbidders, maybe 10-20 times. I purchased maybe 20 items and sold maybe 700 items. 4-5 of 20 were total douches and 2-3 of 700 were non paying bidders.

Jazzdogg · #12 02-07-2008, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spector_Ray

My biggest complaint lately has been how sellers have been raping people on the shipping and handling charges. I work for the USPS and I can ballpark shipping charges. There's a shipping calculator on the website too. The handling is a total crock especially if you're using Priority Mail to ship. You can order the packing materials for free off the website and you can also request a carrier pickup so there's no wasted time and gas going to the post office.

Let me make sure I understand what you've said. I can obtain a box, packing peanuts, etc. free of charge from the U.S.P.S.?

Holy postage stamps, Batman!!

musicelectronix · #13 02-07-2008, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexit

As someone who buys and sells on ebay, I think these new rules are good. Not a perfect solution, but better than the situation before. I think these changes will help to fix two very big problems:

1. Slow/lazy/fraudulent sellers. There are a TON of sellers on ebay who list backordered items. Everybody knows this kind of seller. They take forever to ship, they go passive/aggressive between apologizing and blaming the buyer for delays, that's if they care to respond at all. If you leave them a negative or neutral feedback you get your own that says "negative deserves negative" or something along those lines. The potential for retaliatory feedback means that even a seller with 99.5% positive feedback you have to play the detective game and scroll through 100 pages of feedback looking for the telltale "GREAT ITEM A+++++ etc............shipping took a tad longer than I expected"

I had to deal with this three times in a row in a 2-month stretch, and it completely RUINED my buying confidence on ebay. I've only bought one or two things in the past 12 months and both were from sellers that I had dealt with before or knew about from some outside source.

2. Item significantly not as described - affects buyer confidence for the same reasons, retaliatory feedback when the seller misrepresents an item. For a $20 item, the buyer will likely spend a few hours in total on a bitter return dispute, and all they have to show for it is $20 (minus shipping) and a big ugly negative feedback.

I'm neutral on shipping fees - I know putting a "handling" charge on something can be justified if it's an item that requires a lot of extra work like a motorcycle. I know ebay gives sellers the shaft on half.com with an "averaged" shipping reimbursement that is always far below the actual cost. I also know that a lot of petty buyers may rate lower on shipping because they have no idea what it actually costs, which may set sellers up to have to reduce shipping to try and protect their nest egg. BUT I don't think ebay are trying to screw anyone over here, they are just trying to make it so sellers won't circumvent their fees with high shipping charges. I think that buyers are really getting the short end on fees, and many "handling" charges are also junk for the same reasons spector_Ray mentioned.

None of this is unreasonable. I still don't think ebay is any kind of "good guy" now, these changes are obviously put in place to increase buyer confidence and reduce fee circumnavigation, putting more money in their pockets. But there are a lot more drawn-out and difficult methods they could have gone about doing this. I know that with this in place, I'll feel a lot more comfortable buying on ebay.

My point exactly, only 11 min.s earlier, when I was writing

69nites · #14 02-07-2008, 06:20 PM

if a seller can't leave negative feedback it's going to be difficult to spot deadbeat bidders...

bongomania · #15 02-07-2008, 06:25 PM

But how many sellers actually check the feedback of their winning bidder before the auction ends? It's usually impossible, if the bidder snipes then you have like two seconds to do that research.

alexit · #16 02-07-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

But how many sellers actually check the feedback of their winning bidder before the auction ends? It's usually impossible, if the bidder snipes then you have like two seconds to do that research.

Good point, even knowing that a bidder has bad feedback isn't going to prevent them from bidding.

**john turner** · #17 02-07-2008, 07:33 PM

this is not bass guitar related, and so does not belong in the basses forum.

i'll move it over to misc.

Spector_Ray · #18 02-07-2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzdogg

Let me make sure I understand what you've said. I can obtain a box, packing peanuts, etc. free of charge from the U.S.P.S.?

Holy postage stamps, Batman!!

I don't think peanuts are there, but the boxes, labels and tape can be had for free. The catch is that they CANNOT be used to ship with any other carrier other than USPS and they CANNOT be used to ship any other way than Priority Mail. It's no sweat since the buyer will be paying the shipping costs anyway.

http://shop.usps.com/webapp/wcs/stor...&top_category=

Lokire · #19 02-07-2008, 07:52 PM

I've only ever had 1 real bad experience with ebay, and it was the seller's fault; he was a crook. If I had checked his recent feedback more carefully first I would have seen that though.

Aside from that I've had tons of good experiences with ebay. Sure, people gauge shipping prices, but they have a right to charge whatever they want for shipping, you don't have to bid on it. I always look at shipping prices before I bid, and I like that ebay is now including the shipping price in the total when you sort by price.

It costs $ to list things on ebay, but I don't think it's an unreasonable amount. You're paying a price to have your item easily viewable to everyone in the world. You could be paying just as much (if not more) to put an item on consignment in a local shop.

I've gotten some killer deals on ebay, and I've found some things that I'd never have been able to get otherwise.

Spector_Ray · #20 02-07-2008, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokire

I've only ever had 1 real bad experience with ebay, and it was the seller's fault; he was a crook. If I had checked his recent feedback more carefully first I would have seen that though.

Aside from that I've had tons of good experiences with ebay. Sure, people gauge shipping prices, but they have a right to charge whatever they want for shipping, you don't have to bid on it. I always look at shipping prices before I bid, and I like that ebay is now including the shipping price in the total when you sort by price.

It costs $ to list things on ebay, but I don't think it's an unreasonable amount. You're paying a price to have your item easily viewable to everyone in the world. You could be paying just as much (if not more) to put an item on consignment in a local shop.

I've gotten some killer deals on ebay, and I've found some things that I'd never have been able to get otherwise.

I don't agree with you about the shipping. Shipping prices are set by the carriers and shouldn't be negotiated in an auction. I can understand handling charges as long as they're reasonable. The actual auction is for the selling price of the item only and you shouldn't have to haggle on the shipping price, or the size and weight of an item no matter what. I don't like the practice of posting an inexpensive and lightweight BIN item for $.99 then charging $49 for shipping and handling.