New medical treatment for tinnitus being tested

Stumbo · #1 02-06-2011, 11:13 PM

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/jan2011/nidcd-12.htm

"The key is that, unlike previous treatments, we're not masking the tinnitus, we're not hiding the tinnitus. We are retuning the brain from a state where it generates tinnitus to a state that does not generate tinnitus. We are eliminating the source of the tinnitus," said Dr. Kilgard.

"The clinical protocol is being finalized now and a pilot study in tinnitus patients will be conducted in Europe in the near future," said Dr. Engineer, vice president of preclinical affairs at MicroTransponder. "The support of the NIDCD has been essential to allow our research team to continue our work in this important area of tinnitus research." MicroTransponder is a neuroscience-based medical device company that is working to develop treatments for a variety of neurological diseases, including tinnitus, chronic pain, and anxiety.

In the meantime, the researchers are currently working to fine-tune the procedure to better understand such details as the most effective number of paired frequencies to use for treatment; how long the treatment should last; and whether the treatment would work equally well for new tinnitus cases in comparison to long-term cases.

More info on tinnitus: http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/hearing/tinnitus.htm

**Staccato** · #2 02-06-2011, 11:15 PM

What? That's what I thought you said!

This is news!

Peepaleep · #3 02-06-2011, 11:17 PM

While I certainly hope they can find a cure for tinnitis, research on rats isn't going to get them there. If anything, it will lead them off track or delay the true path for them to follow. We've been curing things in rats for over a hundred years and we still have all the diseases and conditions that rats do not.

Stumbo · #4 02-06-2011, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaleep

While I certainly hope they can find a cure for tinnitis, research on rats isn't going to get them there. If anything, it will lead them off track or delay the true path for them to follow. We've been curing things in rats for over a hundred years and we still have all the diseases and conditions that rats do not.

Unless you want to donate your brain as part of a research study, I think testing on rats will continue.

Finding the "true path" out of billions of possible paths takes years of research and the study of thousands of rat brains. Initial testing on humans is not legal for obvious reasons so I guess we'll have to thank the rats for their sacrifices on our behalf.

Peepaleep · #5 02-07-2011, 12:07 AM

You cannot count how many times testing on rats and other animals has led to dead ends - wasted time, money and lives who could have been helped if we had only studied humans who already have the conditions were trying to cure. Medications and treatments have to be tested on people in a clinical setting before they are approved, so as a matter of good science we should be "cutting out the middle man" so to speak and not worrying about giving rats rat tinnitus and then trying to cure it. Let's study people with tinnitus - I would be glad to volunteer.

R Baer · #6 02-07-2011, 12:10 AM

Why not use the next best thing to lab rats.... bass players!

GrowlerBox · #7 02-07-2011, 12:39 AM

In this instance, at least, given that the study essentially concerns the novel application of an existing treatment modality, it seems reasonable on the face of it to suppose that the research could have skipped the "animal model" stage, and gone straight to bass player before human testing begins.

can you hear me · #8 02-07-2011, 12:58 AM

I thought drummers were a bit less evolved than us? Shouldn't it go rats - drummers - bass players??

My opinion, as a bass player (and more importantly in this case, as an audiologist) is I'll believe it when I see it work on my patients with some consistency.

IMO there is a big problem with how health professionals deal with tinnitus, from the less than useless "learn to live with it" to the crazy talk of instant cures in seconds that will work for most people. There is only a small middle ground where sufferers get good common sense advice that educates and empowers them to deal with this many faceted symptom (note: not disease!).

walterw · #9 02-07-2011, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaleep

...as a matter of good science we should be "cutting out the middle man" so to speak and not worrying about giving rats rat tinnitus and then trying to cure it.

really? you'll volunteer to have nerves cut in your brain so we can figure out what they do?

if this is about animal testing in general, do you have a friend with diabetes? if it weren't for animal testing (on dogs, IIRC), that person would be dead now.

Jerry Ziarko · #10 02-07-2011, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by can you hear me

I thought drummers were a bit less evolved than us? Shouldn't it go rats - drummers - bass players??

Freakin precious!

Low Sound Love · #11 02-07-2011, 05:40 AM

I really hope they can pull it off. I've got some 50-60 years left to live, I 'd love to experience 'silence' again some day.

Zooberwerx · #12 02-07-2011, 05:46 AM

No need to cut nerves at all. Just give each rat his own Marshall stack and Les Paul and let nature take its course. Two possible outcomes: (a) we find a cure for tinnitus (b) the rats play halftime at next year's Super Bowl.

Riis

**lowendfriend** · #13 02-07-2011, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

No need to cut nerves at all. Just give each rat his own Marshall stack and Les Paul and let nature take its course. Two possible outcomes: (a) we find a cure for tinnitus (b) the rats play halftime at next year's Super Bowl.

Riis

The rats (of course with tinnitus to avoid thread hijack) would've been far more entertaining...and I don't even know what their gig would've been....

Peepaleep · #14 02-07-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

if this is about animal testing in general, do you have a friend with diabetes? if it weren't for animal testing (on dogs, IIRC), that person would be dead now.

It's about experimental research in general - it's not good science. That entire stage of Frankenstein-ish study should be avoided because rarely does it yield results that can be relied upon.

And how do you know that people with diabetes would be dead if it weren't for animal research? We'd probably have been able to help more of them sooner if testing on animals were not required.

If you're looking to fix a problem, you should study those who already have the problem and not try to first re-create the problem in a species that does not have it. Rats and dogs and whatever other species do not get human diabetes (or cancer, or heart disease, etc.) - that's why we've been curing cancer in those animals for decades and we're not close to a human cure yet.

Let's think of this the other way - do you think it is scientifically possible to find a cure for a disease in a rat by testing a drug on a human? I don't. So why do people think it works the other way around?

Since this thread is not bass or music related, I will not be posting on it again. I just wanted to respond to the question that was asked of me

boynamedsuse · #15 02-07-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

No need to cut nerves at all. Just give each rat his own Marshall stack and Les Paul and let nature take its course. Two possible outcomes: (a) we find a cure for tinnitus (b) the rats play halftime at next year's Super Bowl.

Riis

Best response so far.

===

If this turns out to be real (something beyond the usual "we got great results, but need more money to continue" agenda), it will be good news for many.

RFord04 · #16 02-07-2011, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaleep

Since this thread is not bass or music related, I will not be posting on it again. I just wanted to respond to the question that was asked of me

Actually, the question that was asked of you, which you completely avoided, was if you would actually allow your brain to be cut in to in the name of science. Really?

You'd be okay with that. I doubt it. Not if you're still alive anyway.

Zooberwerx · #17 02-07-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFord04

Actually, the question that was asked of you, which you completely avoided, was if you would actually allow your brain to be cut in to in the name of science. Really?

You'd be okay with that. I doubt it. Not if you're still alive anyway.

That particular response you're addressing was typical PETA rhetoric...the "spa / neuter" reference in the poster's sig supports my assertion.

Riis

blab · #18 02-07-2011, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaleep

It's about experimental research in general - it's not good science.

Science in general is based on experimental research!

Quote:

That entire stage of Frankenstein-ish study should be avoided because rarely does it yield results that can be relied upon.

That is not true! Polio vaccine, kidney dialysis and a number of other treatments were discovered by research on animals. Check your google!
http://royalsociety.org/The-use-of-n...or-scientists/

Quote:

And how do you know that people with diabetes would be dead if it weren't for animal research?

Because without a treatment they would die of diabetes related complications?

Quote:

We'd probably have been able to help more of them sooner if testing on animals were not required.

While that may be true, we would also probably kill a lot more people in the process by misdirected research.

Quote:

If you're looking to fix a problem, you should study those who already have the problem and not try to first re-create the problem in a species that does not have it. Rats and dogs and whatever other species do not get human diabetes (or cancer, or heart disease, etc.) - that's why we've been curing cancer in those animals for decades and we're not close to a human cure yet.

We're not close to a human cure not because we test drugs on animals but because the mechanisms that drive healthy cells to become cancer are far to complex for our current level of understanding. That's why they do experiments on rats - at one point or another you have to gut the rat to find out what happened when a certain chemical or drug was introduced into it's system - and that wouldn't be acceptable with humans (yes, I know that one can argue that the same is also not acceptable with animals, but that is not the point now)

Quote:

Let's think of this the other way - do you think it is scientifically possible to find a cure for a disease in a rat by testing a drug on a human? I don't. So why do people think it works the other way around?

But it does work in both ways - the only difference is that we are not zealous enough about treating rats as we are about treating other human beings.

MooseLumps · #19 02-07-2011, 11:53 AM

Psyched that there is a forward movement being hinted at for this field.

Resist urge to join flame war...

M0ses · #20 02-07-2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peepaleep

You cannot count how many times testing on rats and other animals has led to dead ends

The number of dead ends pales in comparison to the number of dead rats.

I get where you're coming from, but the approach you're advocating just isn't practical.

Also, if you muted the halftime show last night, it was actually really cool. The rats may have sounded better, but boy did those guys LOOK cool.