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  #1  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:30 PM
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Newb sees a potential problem/bad habit

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Im only 3 days in on my new bass, Im having a great time but I noticed something that I want to correct early.

It seems my pinky wants to curl up and do nothing while Im using my my first , second and third finger. Sometimes I even notice its going below the neck. I almost want to tape a stick to it to keep it straight. Not to mention the muscle in my forearm is sore as hell.

Last edited by Mike 257 : 08-28-2011 at 06:14 PM.
  #2  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:17 PM
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Who said you have to keep it straight? If your forearms are sore as hell, then that's either an indication that straight pinky = bad, or it's because you don't relax your hand enough, or because you anchor your thumb on top of the pickup and have to do a lot of moving your arm/hand around to get to where you need to go
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:26 PM
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Left hand or right hand?

If it's your picking hand, don't worry about it. If it's your fretting hand then yeah, relax and train your pinky to get up there on the fingerboard. But don't hurt yourself.
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  #4  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:00 PM
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MonkeyBass , yes its my fretting hand and yes I do need to relax probally why the muscle in the top of my forearm is sore .
  #5  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:12 AM
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You could be gripping the neck of the bass too hard, which might contribute to a sore forearm. Here is a You Tube clip, which if you practice regularly, should get you onto the right track, including the pinkie problem.



Beginner Bass Guitar Lesson: Left Hand Technique - YouTube
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerlNinja View Post
Who said you have to keep it straight?
I'm sure he means he needs to keep it from sliding below the neck.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:58 AM
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Fearceol thank you for the clip , and you are correct I meant I need to keep my pinky from slipping/curling below the neck.
I'm just not used to having to control my fingers this way . With practice I will overcome this .
  #8  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 257 View Post
Fearceol thank you for the clip , and you are correct I meant I need to keep my pinky from slipping/curling below the neck.
I'm just not used to having to control my fingers this way . With practice I will overcome this .
You are welcome Mike. Be patient and you will get there. Your hands and fingers need time to adapt to this new task being asked of them. With regular practice they will soon know what is needed from them. Be sure to warm up first with gentle stretches, and dont jump headlong into fast playing from the start. Here are two other clips you may like to check out. One is another L/H clip, with the emphasis on safe playing. The other is for the R/H. Seeing as you are only playing for a few days, you might like to check it out.

Good luck with it !

L/H :

Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar - YouTube



R/H :

Todd Johnson Bass Guitar : Floating thumb technique - YouTube
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:44 AM
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Very cool , thank you again .
  #10  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 257 View Post
With practice I will overcome this .
This is a true statement AND indication of the correct attitude.
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  #11  
Old 08-29-2011, 10:54 AM
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Also, make sure you find a position for your fretting hand that is *comfortable*. Even if one person holds a bass like this, and another holds it like that, you just have to find what works for you. The last thing you want is for your new kickass hobby/career path to cause you RSI or carpal tunnel in a few years.

It also depends on how you practice, sitting down or standing up. Best thing to do is stand up and first start adjusting the strap to where you can keep your plucking/picking hand comfortable (wrist at about 45 degrees max or a bit straighter), and then start sliding that bass around on the strap to find a position where you get both hands comfortable.

There's tons of threads about this (and they all have different opinions too ) so by all means read up, but in the end do it the way that is comfortable for you.

And yes, your fretting hand will cause sore muscles for a while, getting your pinky on the fingerboard and keeping it there, and doing the 4-fret-stretch is going to be complicated for a while since it's not something your hands have had to do up to now I can suggest those little stress squeeze balls for relaxing after practicing.
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  #12  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottbass View Post
This is a true statement AND indication of the correct attitude.
Thank you Scott.
  #13  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:50 PM
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My pinky used to curl up alot when I first started playing cause I mostly used my index and ring finger on my fretting hand. When I started practicing scale patterns up and down the neck it seemed to train my pinky to stay alert lol.

Maybe play around with a moveable pentatonic scale pattern.
  #14  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:51 PM
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PerlNinja, I have been sitting down for the past 4 days only because I didnt have an extra $50 to get the cool looking leather strap I wanted. I definitely need to stand up because sitting on the edge of the sofa is taking its toll on my @$$ and back . I mean I have been sitting here since Friday .

Anyway I am loving this , Even though I really dont know anything yet, I know I sound better than I did 4 days ago.
  #15  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmagictones View Post
My pinky used to curl up alot when I first started playing cause I mostly used my index and ring finger on my fretting hand. When I started practicing scale patterns up and down the neck it seemed to train my pinky to stay alert lol.

Maybe play around with a moveable pentatonic scale pattern.
That is pretty much what I was doing , just using index, middle and ring. I dont know what a pentatonic scale is but what I have been doing most the day today is using my index and pinky on 3rd and 6th fret and working my way down from E string to A to D and to G and them back up again. That is quite a stretch for me.
  #16  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:13 PM
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Actually you working a on big stretch like that from the 3rd and 6th frets up and down the strings will help alot too. Eventually the pain becomes less and less. Just like if you play fingerstyle with your right hand you eventually develop caluses and you will get faster and faster with your playing.

A scale pattern is pretty much a group of notes in a particular key that work and sound well together. Actually I wouldnt worry too much about the theory stuff at the moment, just have fun playing and getting the hang of bass for now.
  #17  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:45 PM
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@Mike257: don't worry too much about how the strap looks Get one that's comfortable. After all you will be supporting the weight of the bass on it; I had a narrow strap myself and after 30 minutes that sucker starts digging into your shoulder pretty badly, so got a wide one and it's comfortable now.

As far a the fingers go, doing the big stretches is going to be uncomfortable for a while, but keep it up because your pinky will get used to having to float out way past it's little pinky comfort zone

(noobness incoming so you pro types duck and run)

One thing I found that helps me is play the bass line for the peter gunn theme; it goes like so:

Code:
E|--0-0-2-0-3-0-5-4--|
You'll have to get the tune from somewhere for the timing, but anyway, as you can see, 4 fretted notes, and coincidentally 4 fingers on your fretting hand, so:

2 -> index
3 -> middle
5 -> pinky
4 -> ring

It basically helps you at some point do stretches, and while at first you're going to have to consciously think about the fact that pinky comes beforering, at some point muscle memory takes over.

So yeah. This works for me, YMMV, it might be a way of learning that's totally f'd up but... it works for me

(end of noobness)
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2011, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redmagictones View Post
Actually you working a on big stretch like that from the 3rd and 6th frets up and down the strings will help alot too. Eventually the pain becomes less and less.
OP, be careful here. Over stretching can cause physical problems, especially on the lower frets (1-5). Once you sound a note, there is no need to leave the finger on that fret. If you need to play on the 3rd and 6th frets, instead of stretching, use the thumb as a pivot. Here is a you Tube clip explaining about over stretching. One more important thing, pain, should never be a part of playing the bass. If you do experience it, don't play through it, in the hope it will go away. Instead, investigate the cause and correct it. Having said that, there is a difference between actual pain, and the burning effect often felt from fatigue. I'm sure you will know the difference if/when it occurs.



Bad Habits for Bass: The 1 Finger Per Fret System - YouTube
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:58 AM
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Fearceol, I really appreciate the lesson and how you simplified it . I will pro ally remember it forever since your the first one to teach me something. Wish I didn't have to work today I would much rather be home practicing bass.
  #20  
Old 08-30-2011, 11:09 AM
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Hi Mike, a fellow newbie here just a wee bit further down the road. A few things you mentioned were things I really affected me too, so here's what I found.

First: soreness/pain.

When I started last winter, I tried really hard to hold the left hand positions recommended by various books and skilled friends, practiced despite tension, and ended up with some tendonitis that made me take a few months off; a period with frequent applications of ice and reading up everything I could on left hand position (need the wrist in this position, thumb in that, Stu's hand looks like this, etc.). These various tips and positions I'd periodically try, with resulting despair since inevitably there would be some pain.

The video posted earlier "Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar" (Developing Safe Left Hand Technique for Bass Guitar - YouTube) really is great, so that's why I'm posting it again. It really resonated with what I know of biomechanics from piano and various sports - minimizing tension is a key to minimizing injury and maximizing fluidity, and simply finding the position where my left hand has the least tension and fitting the bass to that was quite eye opening (in my case, the neck was closer to vertical than most pictures, but nothing bizarre). Then, I started practicing with the mind not of "does my hand look right?" but rather "do my hand, fingers, arm, body feel right?" That made a HUGE difference for me.

For me, it turned out, the biggest killer was pressing too hard with my left thumb (a common beginner mistake), so I try to pay particular attention to that (sometimes playing without the thumb, sometimes wiggling it around or tapping while playing, trying to feel whether it's appropriately relaxed and only squeezing when and how it's needed to, turns out, a lot less force is needed than my muscles originally thought).

Paying attention to my tension and comfort really brought out other interesting learnings - for example my left hand is much more tense when I'm trying a new piece the first time at speed, and gets more relaxed once I've learned it. After noticing that, I was surprised to discover the same pattern in my piano playing -- something I'd never noticed for decades!

Other commonly discussed exercises are to practice pressing strings with the absolute minimum of force to train ourselves what it feels like. Once I was able to play with a relaxed hand and my body learned what that felt like, I found I was able to get a lot more fluid, and sounded a lot better with less effort.

Different folks will have different patterns of biomechanics and tension - focusing on listening to our body's quiet attempts to tell us what's not working and letting it guide us to what does is powerfully useful, and every body will lead a slightly different way.

Second: that pesky pinky finger.

When I was starting, my pinky went everywhere (and in a tense way too!), and I tried focusing on making it not fly around. That didn't work - no amount of telling that poor finger not to move in a bad way worked. Once I found a good set of material to practice where I was instead focusing on putting my fingers in the *right* place, along with trying to be aware of muscle tension, I forgot all about trying to restrain my poor pinky, and was quite astonished last week to notice that it was staying nicely down by the strings ready for action without me even thinking about it.

For me, that material was Ed Friedland's book "Bass Method" published by Hal Leonard. GREAT BOOK! Good material that gradually and strategically introduces new positions and movements in a series of exercises that pretty quickly become rather fun to play (especially if you get the version with the CDs), written by a great teacher who really pays attention to not overloading us newbs. I've also tried some video lessons (Stu Hamm's and Roy Vogt's are both great) - but found at the beginning that the self-induced pressure of keeping up with a video triggered me to be too tense and practice too long. Many threads here advocate beginners start off with 5-15 minutes a day for the first while -- and I think in hindsight their advice is quite right. I'll go back to Stu and Roy after finishing up this wonderful book from Ed.

Third: stretching and exercises.

An another recent thread, someone made the great observation that a ten year old has enough strength to press those strings; so what we need is flexibility and speed, not strength. Totally makes sense. I'll add to that the advice I got from my organ professor grandpa who taught me piano -- he had many stories about pianists in the early 20th century who got really into trying out various hand strengthening exercises and gadgets (guess it was the whole 'scientific modern age' thing) and ruined their hands. Our hands are very precise instruments, which we have a huge amount of practice using on a day to day basis -- they're actually pretty strong and flexible already. The focus should be on learning how to fluidly and precisely apply the strength and flexibility we already have, rather than on building up more.

So, stretching on the fretboard might not mean the same thing as when we're stretching out our legs while working out -- we don't need to *stretch* our hands out to new awkward positions in an attempt to meet some goal of making it from some fret to another (there lies the path to tension and injury), rather, we can put the hand in some particular position (or in motion switching between positions) and learn how to, with minimal tension and force, have our fingers do what we want while in it.

Similarly, let's look at the stress squeeze ball PerlNinja recommended -- many like to use those to strengthen the grip (or even recommend to us beginners that we do) -- but note he didn't say that and recommends using it to help relax. A really interesting distinction. We can use them to practice relaxing and being conscious of *how* it feels when we press this finger that way, relax that finger that way, how it differs to press down from the finger tip vs. the base of the finger, etc.

Finally: bass setup

I've read a lot of stories on this board from people who started off with basses that had bad setups, and never new for years that they were playing something with bad actions, tension, or intonation. Know way of knowing how your bass is set up, but it probably can't hurt to have a pro look at it to ensure there's nothing silly that might make you have to work harder than need to, and that the intonation is right so that everything is in tune across the board.

Don't know if any of this is useful, or if even most of it is correct, but they are things I've been gradually thinking through as a result of being in the same situation you're in, and maybe they (and any helpful subsequent critiques of them by those more knowledgable than I) can help.

Keep having fun! It's a blast, I'm really glad I started.
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