Nick Beggs' comments in new Bass Guitar Magazine re. auditions+image

[Eric Grossman]

Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator

I downloaded those to check out-

the bass playing on both is pretty much typical bland run-of-the-mill session guy stuff-
Unsent has a nice smooth tone, I'll give him that, but it's all roots, and his fills on UR are predictable. no personality in the note choices or phrasing.

sorry, pretty uninspiring to me.

give me Bruce Thomas and Graham Maby for the pop genre instead any day.
prompted by the thread in bassists, add T-Bone Wolk too.
I remember his interview in Bass Player where he said Hall & Oates loved his playing at audition, but were concerned about his baldness, so hired him on the condition he wore a hat.

Bummer, but +1 on the guys you mentioned. Great players (although you probably don't respect my opinion of great).

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

I was thinking about the situation in Bon Jovi- ie. Alec John Such being the credited bandmember and doing all the live shows, but sessioner Hugh Mcdonald playing all the bass on the records, and then Such getting fired in 1994 for messing up live, and Mcdonald being hired full-time as bassist.

I had a look at some live footage to see if Such was really that bad, and to see why they'd keep him in the band for so long-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV5_16dOnUg

in this clip from 1986 he gets all the notes, but his playing lacks fluidity.
it's apparent they kept him for his look and stage presence.

if you compare AJS playing "born to be my baby"- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvYxJhJM18E

to Hugh McDonald playing it-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfj9xd9mdkU

it's pretty obvious who really played it in the studio

likewise keep the Faith-
AJS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ7W3THgjH4
HM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjFWtZlRls


I suspect it's also the reason Bob Daisley fell out of favour with Ozzy & Sharon Osbourne- looks and stage presence.
touring bassists Rudy Sarzo, Phil Soussan and Mike Inez all had the advantage in image.

[The Golden Boy]

So what part of "stage presence" is being missed here?

When you're playing in front of an audience, they hear AND see you. The audience is there to be entertained. That's why presentation is at least as important as what you're playing. Jimmy Page is revered as a guitar god. He's got his thing- but playing "precise" isn't one of those things. But there has never been anyone that's slung a Les Paul that's looked any cooler doing it. Hell, I could even play the "Dazed And Confused" solo better than Page did.

Ever hear the maxim "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with ********."

It's the truth. And it's not just music.

Do what you do with just competence and loads of confidence and you'll generally do better in life than someone who strives for technical perfection, but doesn't present themselves well.

How many times do you see someone getting ahead at work, even though they may be clueless, but they look the part?

"Dress for success?"

Try videotaping yourself. Turn the sound off and see how exciting you are.

If you're standing there, with your feet together, on the same plane with your shoulders, looking at your fretboard... That's dull. Change your stance, look at the audience. Maintain your awareness, but watch how you project yourself.

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

When you're playing in front of an audience, they hear AND see you. The audience is there to be entertained. That's why presentation is at least as important as what you're playing.

I'm tempted to say that the visual presentation at a gig is MORE important to the average mainstream gig-goer (who is bereft of musical talent)

"on the other hand, I wonder why the live band members don't get to play on the records- in these cases the material isn't very demanding technically-
does this mean that the home listener is more discerning than the concert-goer?
or just the album producer more discerning than the
live band musical director?"

thinking about this more, the case is probably that with no visuals to distract, an average listener to the records is fully aware of the musical content,

but the same listener at a live gig is unlikely to notice whether, say, the bass player is sloppy, simplified the bassline on the record, or a guitar's tone is different. they probably won't notice much musically except the vocals.

"If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with ********."

very true.

[Rusty Chainsaw]

Hiring image over talent is common in pop music, but by no means universal... a friend of mine got the bass gig for the reformed Take That last year, and he's hardly rocking the boy-band image!

He's a little guy, 5"4', with long hair and a bum-fluff beard, but he's also probably the best bass player I've ever met. His previous gig was playing with Rick Wakeman! He plays lefty and upside-down, and the stuff he can do on the bass has astonished me ever since I first met him 15 years ago... you've never seen a left-hander slap like this! He doesn't get to use the ol' superchops with Take That, but it's great that a player of his calibre has scored a big, well-paying gig like that.

Here's a vid of him with Rick Wakeman.... his name's Lee Pomeroy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAeCG5Lm5c4

[Bard2dbone]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

So what part of "stage presence" is being missed here?

When you're playing in front of an audience, they hear AND see you. The audience is there to be entertained. That's why presentation is at least as important as what you're playing. Jimmy Page is revered as a guitar god. He's got his thing- but playing "precise" isn't one of those things. But there has never been anyone that's slung a Les Paul that's looked any cooler doing it. Hell, I could even play the "Dazed And Confused" solo better than Page did.

Ever hear the maxim "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with ********."

It's the truth. And it's not just music.

Do what you do with just competence and loads of confidence and you'll generally do better in life than someone who strives for technical perfection, but doesn't present themselves well.

How many times do you see someone getting ahead at work, even though they may be clueless, but they look the part?

"Dress for success?"

Try videotaping yourself. Turn the sound off and see how exciting you are.

If you're standing there, with your feet together, on the same plane with your shoulders, looking at your fretboard... That's dull. Change your stance, look at the audience. Maintain your awareness, but watch how you project yourself.

Wow. I'm committing a little thread necromancy here.

In my old band, we actually did videotape the occasional gig to see what we could do to improve.

That's why I won't have a black instrument on stage anymore. And I haven't for nearly twenty years. In one of the videos, I was wearing black shoes, black pants,and a black jacket while playing a black Schecter J bass copy with black hardware and an ebony fretboard in front of a black wall.

The only non-black colored clothing I was wearing was a blue shirt that was almost entirely hidden by the bass while I was playing.

On the video I was reduced to a head-shaped balloon floating near my mic stand with a pair of equally disembodied hands wiggling nearby.

I developed a habit of obnoxiously loud and bright clothing onstage with white, natural or other light-finished basses after that. The black Schecter was traded in on an amber finished Guild Pilot.

It became a running gag, where audience members would bring me bizarre and frequently vulgar Tshirts to wear under the splashily bright open button up shirts that became my habit. If someone gave me a Tshirt, I'd wear it at the next gig, no matter how creepy or inappropriate it was.

I can't begin to guess how many pictures of me were taken wearing say...lizard skeletons in all the poses of the Kama Sutra on my Tshirt under a geometric Hawaiian shirt...because that's what our audience wanted from me.

Go figure.

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

Originally Posted by Bard2dbone

That's why I won't have a black instrument on stage anymore. And I haven't for nearly twenty years. In one of the videos, I was wearing black shoes, black pants,and a black jacket while playing a black Schecter J bass copy with black hardware and an ebony fretboard in front of a black wall.

yeah, black clothes can look great offstage, but once onstage in front of a black background can disappear in "stealth" fashion.

I was reading about how in a conversation most people tend to notice only 7% the actual words that someone is actually saying, 20% their speaking style/tone, and 73% the visual aspect of how they speak-
this might help explain the difference between the criteria for choosing studio players to record an artist's material (where the 27% actual content + tonal quality covers the whole 100% with no visuals), and the bandmembers to play it live.

[Skeletomania]

I don't understand the notion of hiring pretty. In TV, it is a common practice to hire ugly extras to enhance the beauty of actresses. Shouldn't music do the same especially if it's in pop music.

[Snakeman1066]

Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator

it turns out that Mel C's new bassist is Grog- singer/bassist for 90's goth band with over-the-top operatic vocals Feline.

could very well be that Nick Beggs was referring to her- Feline's basslines consisted of root-note eighths.



http://www.tornado.pair.com/melaniec...band/grog.html

meanwhile Kim Khahn's credits http://www.tornado.pair.com/melaniec.../band/kim.html
show that she played on Mel C's new album- as well as touring with former Stranglers singer/guitarist Hugh Cornwell.
strange- i wonder what the circumstances are concerning her not touring with Mel C despite doing the recording....


also another ex-Mel C bassist, Midus Guerreiro http://www.tornado.pair.com/melaniec...and/midus.html 's activities are intriguing (she also played with Tanita Tikaram).

-she was recently playing with London band Jayme Fall (and was featured prominently in their promo photos) but didn't actually play on their album.
she's since left them to play with ex-Hearsay Kym Marsh.

Grog has her own Band called Die so Fluid (currently on tour in Germany) not to mention she is classicly trained and olso one hell of a piano player...they are quite good and so are her basslines....not overtly complicated, but she is a great meat and taters player.....she also played in Kelly Osbourne's band for a bit...

www.diesofluid.net

www.myspace.com/diesofluid

[paul_wolfe]

Originally posted by rusty chainsaw.

He's a little guy, 5"4', with long hair and a bum-fluff beard, but he's also probably the best bass player I've ever met. His previous gig was playing with Rick Wakeman! He plays lefty and upside-down, and the stuff he can do on the bass has astonished me ever since I first met him 15 years ago... you've never seen a left-hander slap like this! He doesn't get to use the ol' superchops with Take That, but it's great that a player of his calibre has scored a big, well-paying gig like that.

Here's a vid of him with Rick Wakeman.... his name's Lee Pomeroy.

+1 for Lee Pomeroy.

Having been forced to endure watching Take That live on the TV at the wife's behest, the one redeeming feature was Lee Pomeroy. He may not get to take his superchops out with TT, but I really liked his bass playing - tasty, in the pocket, nice fills etc. I didn;t realise he played upside down too!

[Howlin' Hanson]

Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator

on the other hand, I wonder why the live band members don't get to play on the records- in these cases the material isn't very demanding technically-
does this mean that the home listener is more discerning than the concert-goer?
or just the album producer more discerning than the
live band musical director?

Sometimes it's for chops, sometimes it's just to get things done more efficiently. The Beach Boys did this. Brian Wilson wrote and recorded the backing tracks while the rest were on the road. When they got back, the "road" Beach Boys learned and recorded the vocals for the recordings.

Then they had to learn the instrument parts so they could go on the road to perform the new songs. In the meanwhile, Brian was writing again....

But there was a lot more pressure in those days to put out three albums or more a year.

[steveksux]

I think the studio stuff is so precise nowadays, heavily produced, click tracked, etc. The road guys do a passable job, but when you're listening to the part bare in the studio, all the little imperfections stick out like a sore thumb. Take after take with "just one little mistake", and suddenly the road guy is out buying lunch while the studio guy gets the part done...

Randy

[Snakeman1066]

to bring this thread a little closer to home...our lead guitard quit recently as he couldn't deal with our singer and rhythm guitard looking like meatloaf......said he wouldn't go out on stage with him....unless he lost like 40 pounds.....and dressed differently

what do you say to that except...see ya....don't let the door hit your backside on the way out...

[duff beer]

Originally Posted by The Mock Turtle Regulator

I was thinking about the situation in Bon Jovi- ie. Alec John Such being the credited bandmember and doing all the live shows, but sessioner Hugh Mcdonald playing all the bass on the records, and then Such getting fired in 1994 for messing up live, and Mcdonald being hired full-time as bassist.

AJS had a lot of time over the years to put in some effort and improve his bass playing before he ultimately lost his gig. Honestly...if you are still making mistakes after having played some of the songs a couple thousand times in a rehearsals and concerts over the years then you probably deserve to be fired.

[megadan]

The lesson here is clearly that only us tall, lanky bassist get the gig.

Get lanky ya layabouts!


But I guess if I was producing some famous pop band I'd be more concerned about looks than chops, I mean, you can just use backing tracks...

[The Mock Turtle Regulator]

Originally Posted by duff beer

AJS had a lot of time over the years to put in some effort and improve his bass playing before he ultimately lost his gig.

I was reading on a Bon Jovi forum (the things I do for research purposes...) that there was a bit more to the reasons for his firing than just his playing being sub-par- apparently Jon Bon Jovi took exception to some of the things AJS let slip in an interview.

[Against Will]

So, this might be the wrong place to ask it, but I'm going to just throw this out there: Who would you prefer be in Metallica Les Claypool vs. Jason Newstead?


They're both accomplished bassists, but I'm willing to bet that mid-80's Claypool was more technically accomplished than mid-80's Newstead. But I can't see big goofy looking Claypool playing for Metallica, and I'm sure the guys in Metallica saw it the same way (And Claypool was obviously emphasizing it when he wore that ridiculous shirt for the Behind the Music interview). I don't think choosing Claypool would have ruined Metallica but it definitely would have screwed with their legacy and image.

And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, the way a band looks, especially rock bands, is important. Cool is rock's (and sometimes pop's) currency in trade and a lot of great bands and artists are remembered for their look as much as sound; the Rolling Stones, the Sex Pistols, Elvis, etc. Can you imagine how ridiculous the Beatles would have looked at the release of Strawberry Fields if one of them (Ringo? Paul?) had decided to show up with a buzzcut and wearing a t-shirt and jeans?


I'm not saying its right or anything. Just something worth considering.