Offering music with an "option to pay" plan doesn't work.

Benjamin Strange · #1 02-14-2008, 08:57 PM

Three months ago, I released two Burnt Infant albums on my site for free, with an option to pay. The albums have been downloaded a total of 2600 times, and not a single soul has offered to pay a single dime. I can't believe this. Sure, Burnt Infant is mostly just abstract whale noises, but not a single person bothered to pay anything at all? I find this insulting to an extreme degree.

As of this moment, I'm giving up on the idea of offering free downloads. Music has absolutely no monetary worth in this society any more. I'm going to have to figure out another way of distributing this music... for a price. I hate to do that, but apparently relying on people's charitable nature is folly.

Now I know how Radiohead and Saul Williams feel. Music is my sole means of income... not a glamorous or lucrative profession. This is a bit disgusting... a regular day job in some cubicle seems pretty attractive right about now.

[/rant]

Matt Till · #2 02-14-2008, 09:28 PM

That's cool. I'll just pirate your music off Soulseek.

Hawaii Islander · #3 02-14-2008, 09:32 PM

You could set it up for people to listen to for free, but charge a fee to download a copy. I see many sites that do this.

Benjamin Strange · #4 02-14-2008, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

That's cool. I'll just pirate your music off Soulseek.

Then I'll sue you.

Matt Till · #5 02-14-2008, 09:36 PM

Really though, you can't be surprised. I wouldn't be insulted. In fact, if I were you, I'd be honored that my music had been downloaded 2600.

Downloading is so abstract, and this is why I was hesitant to accept the technology at all. The very non physical nature disassociates the music from any kind of reality. When I hold onto a record, I KNOW who I'm listening to, whereas you can have a playlist full of MP3s and something can be playing and you might not even know who it is (it's happened to me a few times).

I almost think albums should become free and merch and live shows should be the money of the music industry. I saw a piece of cardboard with a picture of Fallout Boy's CD cover on the front and it was for sale: It was an iTunes download that you bought in the store. You bought it there (a gift idea would be my only guess), the messed up thing... it cost just as much as the CD. Really? No packaging? No CD? And it's the same price... weird.

Matt Till · #6 02-14-2008, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Then I'll sue you.

You're fired.

... It doesn't make sense, but ....

meev992 · #7 02-14-2008, 09:49 PM

if I can get the audio coming through the computer, I can take that and turn it into an mp3. There's perks that come with all the audio equipment that I have.

gottawalk · #8 02-15-2008, 12:01 AM

After reading your post, I went to your site and I see that you've retracted your offer. No problem, except that now there is absolutely no way to even "preview" what the "music" is. How do you expect someone to pay to have your music if they don't even know what it sounds like??? '

You say the music is, (and I quote),

Quote:

Sure, Burnt Infant is mostly just abstract whale noises,

well... who the hell is going to pay for "whale noise"?'

Just asking.....

TeeMartin · #9 02-15-2008, 12:06 AM

You're asking a lot of people for them to pay for "abstract whale noises".

Just curious, how many CDs would have you expected to sell? And how much do you make on each CD? Most bands make what, like $1 per CD sold?

Deluge Of Sound · #10 02-15-2008, 01:37 AM

There's a reason Radiohead waited until they were one of the biggest bands in the universe before they released In Rainbows for whatever people wanted to pay for it. You know what you're going to get when you listen to Radiohead, I had no idea what I was going to get when I downloaded Spam a few months ago.

When you say something like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Both of these albums are available for free at http://www.burntinfant.com, but if you feel a desperate need to give me some money for them, I do accept donations through the Burnt Infant site.

And something like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Also, I'm experimenting with a take on the whole Radiohead/Nine Inch Nails free download thing: I'm simply asking for donations. This is something I did years ago with Dead Hand System; honestly without a lot of success. Perhaps now that some big names have gotten into the program, I might be able to make a few bucks.

It seems a little strange that you would be so upset about not making money on an album you recorded with one track of a modified Hello Kitty guitar. I mean, I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like you were setting out to be Soulja Boy here.

Matt Till · #11 02-15-2008, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeeMartin

You're asking a lot of people for them to pay for "abstract whale noises".

Just curious, how many CDs would have you expected to sell? And how much do you make on each CD? Most bands make what, like $1 per CD sold?

Ambient is a legitimate genre with a small, but devoted following.

FuturePrimitive · #12 02-15-2008, 07:38 AM

How do you differentiate the abstract whale noises from the normal whale noises?

SteveC · #13 02-15-2008, 07:42 AM

I'm sorry but with the way people try to and even expect to get everything for free - especially music online - I don't know why you thought anyone would just up and give you money - no matter what your music sounds like.

A nice experiment, but it just illustrates and confirms in no uncertain terms peoples attitudes about online music and downloading.

IanStephenson · #14 02-15-2008, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

I almost think albums should become free and merch and live shows should be the money of the music industry.

This is really just a stopgap idea, that lets people steal with a clear conscience. It sounds like it should work, but in a couple of years you'll be saying:

"I think movies should be free. Movie studio's should make their money from traveling theater"

Doesn't sound quite so convincing. Ripping/downloading video is only a few years behind audio - what happens then?

Ian

TrooperFarva · #15 02-15-2008, 07:53 AM

I'm not sure the specifics of your setup, but I would recommend the following. Offer low bitrate mp3s for free, and then high bitrate mp3s for a price. Also, if 2600 people downloaded your music, you probably have a decent fanbase at this point. Play some shows, and the people that downloaded your music will pay to see you.

Bruce Lindfield · #16 02-15-2008, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

I'm sorry but with the way people try to and even expect to get everything for free - especially music online - I don't know why you thought anyone would just up and give you money - no matter what your music sounds like.

A nice experiment, but it just illustrates and confirms in no uncertain terms peoples attitudes about online music and downloading.

I think it's akin to giving schoolchildren easy access to firearms and hoping that they won't massacre each other!

**baba** · #17 02-15-2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

Ripping/downloading video is only a few years behind audio - what happens then?

Ian

I don't know, but the movie industry better embrace the change and get a plan together before they lose their ass like the inflexible, sit on their laurels, hide their head in the sand and it will go away, hyper-deluxe-meta-music-industrial-complex did.

lefty007 · #18 02-15-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Till

Really though, you can't be surprised. I wouldn't be insulted. In fact, if I were you, I'd be honored that my music had been downloaded 2600.

+1

You can't pull off something like what Radiohead did unless you are, well, Radiohead. . . a band that will sell out every date in their tour.

dancehallclasher · #19 02-15-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

This is really just a stopgap idea, that lets people steal with a clear conscience. It sounds like it should work, but in a couple of years you'll be saying:

"I think movies should be free. Movie studio's should make their money from traveling theater"

Doesn't sound quite so convincing. Ripping/downloading video is only a few years behind audio - what happens then?

Ian

Could be. Think about images. You can download pictures from the internet very easily. I bet you've done it plenty of times and not thought there was anything wrong with it. Yet photography is a legitimate art that people are struggling to make money from.

I think we're in the process of undergoing a moral shift when thinking about owning media.

Bruce Lindfield · #20 02-15-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancehallclasher

Could be. Think about images. You can download pictures from the internet very easily. I bet you've done it plenty of times and not thought there was anything wrong with it. Yet photography is a legitimate art that people are struggling to make money from.

I think we're in the process of undergoing a moral shift when thinking about owning media.

Well yes - if nobody pays for media - then no money goes into producing any high-quality media and we are all left staring at crappy videos recorded off mobile phones!!