Opinions on our PA setup

[MX21]

Trying to figure out our PA setup.

We have the following gear at our disposal:

(1) Mackie CFX-12 mixer
(1) Crown XLS 802-II stereo amp
(1) Carvin DCM-1500 stereo amp
(2) Peavey PR12 speakers
(1) Peavey PV118 sub
(4) Kustom KPC10M monitors

I also have a decent bass rig and one drummer has a 2-15 cab and amp for when he plays his electronic drums.

I'm trying to work out what to use for playing small clubs / cafes / restaurants with what we have.

Band mix is:

1) electric guitar, sometimes joined by a second
1) acoustic guitar
1) drummer (depending on who plays, it's either acoustic or electronic)
1) keyboard (sometimes)
3) vocals, sometimes 4

We play various classic rock and blues from 60s & 70s.

I'll use the PR12s as mains and 10s as monitors. Crown will drive the mains on one channel. Carvin will drive the monitors, 2 per channel.

Should I:

1) Also use the sub (2nd channel on the crown amp) and use only a minimal bass rig for my monitor? Drummer may still need his amp for kick/monitoring.

or

2) Forget the sub and just bring my rig and have the drummer bring his, only using the PA for vocals, guitars, and keys (EQ the lows out so he doesn't compete with me ).

or

3) Use sub and bass and drum rigs (don't want to blow away the room, though).

4) ??? other configuration ideas?

Of course, this changes when we have the acoustic drummer. No drum amp then.

I guess the main question it boils down to is: which is better, PA with sub or PA backed by bass rig?

Sorry if this post is too lengthy. Opinions?

Thanks in advance,

MX

[JustDavid]

I'd flip this to the Live Sound forum.

Not up on the amp & cab power ratings, but I'd go bass rig + subs for kick drum & bass support (if the latter is needed).

Another option is to go with one monitor mix through one channel of the weak amp, tops through the other channel, & bridge the big amp for the sub. Amp/cab dependant.

[MX21]

I thought that Live Sound was only for Bass guitar live sound issues. Since I'm talking the whole PA setup, I didn't think this went there.

The tops are 400W each and the sub is 400W. All 8Ω.

The Crown does 400W/ch @ 8Ω or 750W/ch @ 4Ω. So 2 tops on 1 channel and sub on another.

MX

[JustDavid]

"All issues related to live sound reinforcement & PA systems."

This is an excellent topic for there. Yours is not an uncommon situation.

BTW (presuming the amps & cabs are halfway decent & my unresearched guess is they are) you've the makings of a nice little system there. You'll need a crossover. 31 band EQs will be handy for the main & monitor channel(s). An effects unit will sweeten the vocals.

[standupright]

having played several situations like what you mentioned we found the following to be more than adequate

mixer
2 - 1x12 pa speakers
2 - monitors

this supported 5 vocal mics. all other sound was straight amps not going through the pa.

ymmv

[MX21]

Originally Posted by JustDavid

"All issues related to live sound reinforcement & PA systems."

This is an excellent topic for there. Yours is not an uncommon situation.

BTW (presuming the amps & cabs are halfway decent & my unresearched guess is they are) you've the makings of a nice little system there. You'll need a crossover. 31 band EQs will be handy for the main & monitor channel(s). An effects unit will sweeten the vocals.

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye out for an inexpensive crossover and eq. The mixer has a sub output, but it crosses over at 100Hz, which seems a bit low. The built-in crossover in the sub has a high crossover (around 400-500Hz?). Would prefer something in between that I have some control over.

The mixer has a built-in effects that I put on the vocals.

MX

[MX21]

Originally Posted by standupright

having played several situations like what you mentioned we found the following to be more than adequate

mixer
2 - 1x12 pa speakers
2 - monitors

this supported 5 vocal mics. all other sound was straight amps not going through the pa.

ymmv

Yes, I'm very tempted to leave the sub at home, since it's the biggest heaviest piece and just use the PA for vocals, with everyone else bringing their own amps.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by MX21

Yeah, I'm keeping an eye out for an inexpensive crossover and eq. The mixer has a sub output, but it crosses over at 100Hz, which seems a bit low. The built-in crossover in the sub has a high crossover (around 400-500Hz?). Would prefer something in between that I have some control over.

The mixer has a built-in effects that I put on the vocals.

MX

100Hz is fine for a sub Xover point if you have decent mains. If you make it higher you'll get a bunch of mud from the sub and the mains fighting over the midbass. YMMV, but that's my experience.

[MX21]

Originally Posted by ggunn

100Hz is fine for a sub Xover point if you have decent mains. If you make it higher you'll get a bunch of mud from the sub and the mains fighting over the midbass. YMMV, but that's my experience.

I base this on listening to it, but it was setup in a small room for testing, so you may be right when I get it in a more appropriate room.

MX

[JustDavid]

Apologies MX: I missed the "small clubs/restaurants" in your post.

For me, I want the subs for the kick & my "tunnel vision" is on loudish classic rock. No subs should work fine for those venues & the music likely to be played there.

[ggunn]

Do you mic the kick? Is the bass in the PA? Do you have a keyboardist with a heavy left hand? If "no" to all three, leave the subs at home.

[Stumbo]

I suggest you take all your stuff to a gig, try the smallest setup first and add the other stuff as necessary. Go FOH and adjust from there.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

I suggest you take all your stuff to a gig, try the smallest setup first and add the other stuff as necessary. Go FOH and adjust from there.

Yeah, I'll agree with that one. 'Tis better to have and not need than the t'other way 'round.