Overplaying

[chaseman]

I'm a 16 year old bass player in a band and we play kind of laidback, light funky rock (not quite sure what genre it would come under) and I've been trying to create interesting basslines that both fit the bill and don't overpower the rest of them (bear in mind we're only a 3 piece).

Sometimes the drummer gets a bit pissed that I'm grooving too much, and I don't want to come over as a fret-wanker to anyone watching, even though, in my eyes, my basslines are perfectly legitimate.

Is it better to play down and blend in, or have fun and noodle some riff? Any advice / comments would be helpful

[colcifer]

Aretha Franklin Live at the Filmore West.

[jefkritz]

there's a fine line between overplaying and not. sometimes you gotta play more notes than other times, especially in a 3 piece. stuff i would play in a 4, 5, or 6 piece would be boring in a 3 piece (unless the other two peeps are filling space to).

play enough to make the music interesting (to listen to, not necessarily to play), but not so much that you overpower the music or make it too complicated.

i'll rework a mingus quote: 'anyone can make the funk complicated, but only an artist can make the funk simple'. simple can be real real funky.

[Dirk Diggler]

Wow I have never heard of a drummer complaining that the bass player is "Grooving too much"!
There's a first for everything.
The "rules" really are different in a 3 piece situation for sure.
Good luck,
Dirk

[poorbassist15]

Listen to John Paul Jones playing with Led Zeppelin. He creates interesting basslines without overplaying. Listen to their live stuff, because I think that conveys how well his basslines work in a band situation and how he can change that based on the feels of the improvs they go on.

[Rockmusician]

By definition overplaying means you are playing more than what is needed and is never a good thing. How much you play really depends on the song. John Paul Jones, John Entwistle and Jack Bruce had some of the busiest bass lines in the history of rock and blues. But what they played fit the songs. That should be your primary goal. Play what is appropriate and you cannot go wrong.

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by colcifer

Aretha Franklin Live at the Filmore West.

+1

[Gasman]

Originally Posted by Rockmusician

By definition overplaying means you are playing more than what is needed and is never a good thing. How much you play really depends on the song. John Paul Jones, John Entwistle and Jack Bruce had some of the busiest bass lines in the history of rock and blues. But what they played fit the songs. That should be your primary goal. Play what is appropriate and you cannot go wrong.

You beat me to it!

I would add Tool as another example. But there's the other side. Many pop punk bands basslines are very simple, and work, but mainly because the guitar is pretty simple as well. It depends on the sound you are trying to achieve. Maybe the drummer is jealous?

[Rockmusician]

Originally Posted by Gasman

You beat me to it!

I would add Tool as another example. But there's the other side. Many pop punk bands basslines are very simple, and work, but mainly because the guitar is pretty simple as well. It depends on the sound you are trying to achieve. Maybe the drummer is jealous?

+1

[MakiSupaStar]

Listen to jamerson and motown. Listen to family man and roots reggae. Listen to George Porter. Listen to hip hop. A lot of it is not terribly complicated. It's just fat simple grooves that hit like a bomb.

Also work out some ideas with the drummer as to how he pictures the groove versus how you picture the groove. If you're both hitting on different parts of the count, that's something you can tighten up right there. Once you start gelling as a cohesive unit, you'll start to feel the pocket more and opportunities to take little steps out to lay down your business will present themselves. My two cents

[superbassman2000]

If the drummer is thinking you are "grooving too much" then my guess is that he is following you, and can't find your groove (or at least your 1), and that's what i would translate him to mean. I would simplify it up until he can figure it up, then go to town.

[colcifer]

Originally Posted by pacojas

+1

He's called the Groovemaster for a reason.

OP, get together with your drummer and listen to this album. The drummer is Bernard 'Pretty' Purdy, creator of the Pretty Purdy Shuffle, copied by MANY including Alan White and John Bonham. Anyhoo, it'll school you big time. I mispelled "Fillmore", btw.

[JimmyM]

time and a place for everything. if you think you're doing justice to the music, then by all means play what you will. but it's a little hard sometimes for bass players. we want to show off what we can do, but there is a very fine line between doing that and ruining a good song. i would probably take your drummer seriously to a degree, and be a little self-critical with it. not everyone can be the featured instrument in every song so consider picking your spots more carefully. but if you think your overplayed lines make the song, fight for them. i've heard quite a few over the top bass lines that are now classics. i'm not against it by any means. just know when to say when.

[anonymous122511]

It's good to listen to what others have to say about your playing but YOU need to know what's happening so record yourself as much as possible. The tape don't lie.

[chaseman]

Originally Posted by superbassman2000

If the drummer is thinking you are "grooving too much" then my guess is that he is following you, and can't find your groove (or at least your 1), and that's what i would translate him to mean. I would simplify it up until he can figure it up, then go to town.

I see what you're getting at, and to some extent this could be true, but I've been playing with him since the band started (4 years) and we have learnt to mix a bit. However, he seems to complain when I go off tangent when I see a nice run and he finds it too overpowering for the music. He's a good drummer, and we follow eachother (and leave the singer/guitard to his own devices) so I trust his judgement in most cases. I'll have a listen to the stuff you guys have suggested, thanks for the advice

[EdHunter]

Start off simple, then crank it up a bit, gradually, until it all falls apart, then use that as your basic groove.

Also, they have internet in Weymouth?

[chaseman]

Also, they have internet in Weymouth?

Am I missing something? I thought Weymouth was a middle sized town on the Dorset coast, which is well developed and has a relatively good economy?

Anyway, back on topic, I will try laying down some simple stuff and seeing how far I can push it before he starts glaring at me again

[elavate7]

i played in a 3 piece band and no one has ever said that i was doing to much. the thing about being in a band is that everyone cant be too complicated or the music will sound a mess. you have to get in where you fit in...

[EdHunter]

Originally Posted by chaseman

Am I missing something? I thought Weymouth was a middle sized town on the Dorset coast, which is well developed and has a relatively good economy?

Anyway, back on topic, I will try laying down some simple stuff and seeing how far I can push it before he starts glaring at me again

I was born in Poole - I was always gonna say something like that...

But that's the way I deal with overplaying. See what the most I can get away with without ruining the song, then go form there.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

Listen to family man and roots reggae.

+1!

My favorite "Pocket playing" recording is Jimmy Cliff In Concert. Those guys are all monster players, but they hold a simple groove that just freaking kills! (I always put that on when I'm on my way to a gig that I'm excited about. It helps me focus on the job at hand.)

I was listening to some Slave last night, and the bass on Slide is another good example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOW7CnMpbo

Remember; Half the time a rest is better than a note.