Perfect Pitch..

[Papa Dangerous]

I am one of those people who does not have the blessed gift of perfect / absolute pitch. I often wondered a few things about it and had a few questions to those who naturally have it, and to those who developed it. Feel free to pick and chose which ever questions you would like to answer

1) When you hear a note, does it have a very specific characteristic that tells you what note it is exactly?
-Does each note have its very own persona to your ear?
2) Is it possible to really explain what you hear, and how each note varies from one another?
- Does a certain range have a special quality to it, and do you decipher from there which note is in that range?
3) If you learned perfect pitch rather then having the natural gift of ear, how did you go about learning it?
- What was the hardest part in understanding it?
- Any recommended methods or tips for those trying to learn?
4) Pitch value is pitch value, so does that mean you can hear a pitch regardless of timbre?
5) Do you feel there are side effects to having perfect pitch? Such as hearing a noise when in conversation, and getting distracted to mentally, or verbally note what pitch you just heard.
6) This may seem kinda redundant, but how does it feel to be able to hear notes for their exact qualities? Not so much as "it feels good to hear it" but more like is there a certain tingle of the ear that causes you to understand that each note is something specific?

[carl h.]

What is "A" ? Is it the current 440 or one of the old standards? Who, of the perfect pitch world, decides this? Did the people who set it at 440 consult people with perfect pitch to see if they had it right?

[groooooove]

Originally Posted by carl h.

What is "A" ? Is it the current 440 or one of the old standards? Who, of the perfect pitch world, decides this? Did the people who set it at 440 consult people with perfect pitch to see if they had it right?

during baroque times string players often had to tune up or down as much as a minor third to match the tuning systems of neighboring churches. as time went on and string / instrument quality went up, more areas started using closer tuning systems. ever since electronic tuners have been around its understood that A3 is 440 hz.

another note to the op- you cant develop perfect pitch. your born with it. the best way to explain it is, you identify pitches the way normal people can identify colors. you see green, you just know that its green, right? thats how a perfect pitch person knows that a Bb is just.. a Bb.. they hear it.

oddly enough, most people ive worked with that have perfect pitch have been awfull and un-musical. the small percentage that are musical though, tend to be absolutely amazing.

[Phalex]

I played with a guitar player years ago that claimed he had perfect pitch. He was a bit of an egotistical prick..........

I dunno if that's a side effect, but if it is, I'm glad more people don't have it!

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by carl h.

What is "A" ? Is it the current 440 or one of the old standards? Who, of the perfect pitch world, decides this? Did the people who set it at 440 consult people with perfect pitch to see if they had it right?

The tuning of a piano is quite subjective really. I believe, if I recall correctly, it was setup the way it was to actually be able to identify the notes on the piano. The only way to know what note you are playing (unless you have an ear for it) is to know how to identify the b-c semitone, and the e-f semitone. If there was a B#/ Cb enharmonic tone (a black key) we would have a much harder time identifying the note we are playing. (same for e-f) I think the tuning dealt with the matter of getting a note, then providing the octave. Then the Perfects notes (4th and 5th) (These were the essential and only notes used in Gregorian chant circa 1300. Anything else was considered unholy). Then I believe it was adjusted to accommodate the 3rds and 6ths (This was the result of the British tinkering with music). Then we finally got the 2nds and 7ths thrown in the mix. And now we have a scale. The black keys were used for changing the scale/mode patterns.
-Please correct me if I am incorrect on something, its been a little bit since I was told the story.

I do not know if the piano was tuned bass'd (Heh) on 440 hz, but I do know that 440 hz is considered concert pitch. Usually played by the Oboe, the rest of the orchestra tunes to A to make sure everyone is properly tuned. Perhaps its because all the stringed instruments (instruments that can go out of tune) all share the A string. Hertz or cps (cycles per second) are interchangeable terms. A3 is 440hz, A2 is 220 hz, and A1 is 110hz.. see the pattern? It doubles for every octave. This related to harmonics when playing a piano or bass/guitar.

Originally Posted by groooooove

another note to the op- you cant develop perfect pitch. your born with it. the best way to explain it is, you identify pitches the way normal people can identify colors. you see green, you just know that its green, right? thats how a perfect pitch person knows that a Bb is just.. a Bb.. they hear it.

oddly enough, most people ive worked with that have perfect pitch have been awfull and un-musical. the small percentage that are musical though, tend to be absolutely amazing.

I was always under the impression you can "develop" perfect pitch, as in, sit down and train your ear to learn the different qualities of each note until you can recall which pitch is what note. I suppose this isn't the same as having perfect pitch in a way, but in both scenarios, a person can identify pitch. Thus that seems to imply that a person has to, so to say, learn what "green" is, and to identify things of a greenish shade.


But still, very interesting feedback, and I would love to hear more opinions, or experiences.

[Papa Dangerous]

Is there a policy against arrogantly hitting up a thread to bump it up to the top of the list cause one is that interested in wanting to receive comments? Is it acceptable if the intent is hidden within an off topic post

[carl h.]

My point was that the tuning standard of 440hz=A was a committee determination. There is nothing inherently "A" about 440, it was just the chosen frequency determined to be the standard. A person with perfect pitch just hears the note, but it has to be relative - not absolute - to be of any use whatsoever. If their fixed pitch center is not 440 then their pitch is imperfect by modern standards.

Perfect pitch isn't "perfect" but relative, and relative pitch is not "perfect" pitch. So is there really perfect pitch?

[Rockmusician]

I have only met one person who had perfect pitch. An ex-girlfriend of mine. I could play any note on a guitar, bass or keyboard and she could instantly tell me what note it was. It was kind of freaky.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by carl h.

My point was that the tuning standard of 440hz=A was a committee determination. There is nothing inherently "A" about 440, it was just the chosen frequency determined to be the standard. A person with perfect pitch just hears the note, but it has to be relative - not absolute - to be of any use whatsoever. If their fixed pitch center is not 440 then their pitch is imperfect by modern standards.

Perfect pitch isn't "perfect" but relative, and relative pitch is not "perfect" pitch. So is there really perfect pitch?

hmm.. very interesting point of view that I did not take into consideration... From that POV, one would have to assume that "perfect pitch" should be retitled to "Hertz Identification" Instead of recognizing A, that person would hear 440 cycles of the note played. A professor I knew, could name each note on the piano by hearing it. He also could hear a chord that was missing a note, and be able to identify the missing note. Hence, "hertz Id" is something that potentially does exist. Some people have it, some people do not. So the hearing/listening/neurological impulses of these people must be different (perhaps more finely tuned) then others. I once heard a person describe that a certain Hz value sounds like something, and associated it to something, thus to identify the pitches, the person is reminded of something, then can recall what note is being played.

I wonder if I might be trying to dig too deep into something here.. ?

[carl h.]

PP does get deep.

Never admit to having it, people without it think it is an excuse to REALLY annoy someone who does have it.

I toured the west coast with a cellist who claimed to have perfect pitch. Unfortunately we were traveling with a portable pipe organ which was only tuned every 4th performance and just touched up between performances. When the organ started to get farther away from 440 she couldn't play in tune with it. It was THE WORST performing experience in my life EVER!! She was a decent cellist, but for all practical purposes, had no ear.

[Papa Dangerous]

Originally Posted by groooooove

oddly enough, most people ive worked with that have perfect pitch have been awfull and un-musical. the small percentage that are musical though, tend to be absolutely amazing.

Originally Posted by Phalex

I played with a guitar player years ago that claimed he had perfect pitch. He was a bit of an egotistical prick..........

I dunno if that's a side effect, but if it is, I'm glad more people don't have it!

Originally Posted by carl h.

I toured the west coast with a cellist who claimed to have perfect pitch. Unfortunately we were traveling with a portable pipe organ which was only tuned every 4th performance and just touched up between performances. When the organ started to get farther away from 440 she couldn't play in tune with it. It was THE WORST performing experience in my life EVER!! She was a decent cellist, but for all practical purposes, had no ear.

Its funny, I have heard a lot about people that have these pitch identifying skills frequently have a hard time playing with others.. Either there ability to play is obstructed because they hear the slightest bit wrong in a very slightly out of tune instrument.. or they are no fun to play with because they are d-bags. I suppose having perfect pitch in no way constitutes having a superb concept of harmony, huh?

[scottbass]

I have taught myself to identify pitches. I don't consider that I have "true" perfect pitch, but the end result is the same.

I can identify a single note (not a chord) by comparing it to the G at the low end my vocal range. After many years of musicianship, humming a low G is very repeatable for me. I then hear and identify the interval from my G to the note I am trying to identify.

Because of the imperfect steps in the standard tempered scale, I can identify a major or minor chord just by the sound of it; i.e., the relative numeric ratios of the frequencies of the 1st to the 3rd to the 5th. This is easiest with a piano or other keyboard, relatively easy with a (fretted) guitar, but slightly more difficult with just a string or brass section (because the players can bend notes of a static chord much easier).

Try this: Using a piano, play a D major chord (D - F# - A). Listen to the overall sound of the chord, the brightness, etc. (Whatever words you use to describe its overall character.) Then play an Eb major (Eb - G - Bb). Can you hear the difference in character?

I have been playing many different instruments and singing in just about every type of band, orchestra, choir, and other grouping of individuals for over 50 years. I was not born with perfect pitch (as I define it), but I have developed the skill to identify pitches based on their intervals to each other or to my repeatable low G.

I don't consider this skill to be perfect pitch because I can't , for example, listen to a single guitar string being played and tell whether it is in tune or 5 or 10 cents sharp or flat. I can, however, tell whether it is sharp or flat when I hear the other strings played. Many of you also have developed this skill.

[punkrocko]

Perfect pitch isn’t as useful as what you might think. Relative pitch is what you want. It’s also something everyone can develop.

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by punkrocko

Perfect pitch isn’t as useful as what you might think. Relative pitch is what you want. It’s also something everyone can develop.

Or, I could have saved all the words and just said this!!!

[the_stone]

Originally Posted by punkrocko

Perfect pitch isn’t as useful as what you might think. Relative pitch is what you want. It’s also something everyone can develop.

Exactly. From listening to a number of my professors in undergrad and grad school, the general consensus is that you have to be born with true "perfect pitch" (AKA "absolute pitch) - the ability to recognize pitches out of thin air, and assign note names to the appropriate pitches. I've known a few musicians who had perfect pitch, and it almost seems more of a curse - any out-of-tune sound, whether it's an oboe, a bass, or a dump truck's horn, drives them crazy.

Plus, some musicians who have PP use it as a crutch. They can hear a piece of music and play it back exactly, but they never take the time to learn the relationships of the notes, how harmony and rhythm and melodies work together, etc... There's stories from the big band days of jazz about guys who could memorize an entire book of music by ear, but when the bands broke up, they had trouble getting other gigs because they had never put the time in to learn how really play (with some notable exceptions.)

It is possible to develop a very high level of relative pitch so that it appears the person has perfect pitch.