Personal Monitor System: Hear Technologies

[RAM]

Currently my band is renting a PA for practice. It's pretty banged up and the monitors suck. I guess it kinda meets our needs, but we're looking for more. My guitarist proposed the idea we invest in a Personal Monitor System, where we get much better quality and control over our tone, and can bring the volume way down. In addition, we'd have the flexibility to have our own individual mixes, so I could mix in as much or as little of any given instrument as I want. Sounds really cool, right? So, we decided to invest in one.

What the guitarist found was a bundled unit by Hear Technologies http://www.heartechnologies.com/hb/hearbacksystem.htm . I've been doing a little research to see what kinds of other units exist like this, given the price, but couldn't find anything, at least that's in the same ballpark, price-wise. This contains

• 4 mixers
• 1 hub
• 4 - 50 foot CAT5E cables
• and an analog DA-88 cable

- all for the street price of ~ $1,200.

In doing my research, I found some units by other manufacturers, but nothing that was complete enough for a 4-person band (with the expectation we'll be adding more as our setlist grows) and has the entire bundle above included for anywhere near this price.

One thing I was concerned about was having a limiter, but this unit does have a built in DSP limiter, so I'm hoping this would help take care of our ears.

My question is, does anyone have experience with Personal Monitor systems, what you like, what you don't, things to keep in mind, and if you're familiar with Hear Technologies. I did a search, but found very little on this company.

Thanks!

[RAM]

bump...anyone?

[DblG]

I ran across the same system when I was doing research a few years ago. This system sounds like it'd be so good, where everyone gets their own unit to make their own mix for themselves. Unfortunately, we have 6 people in the band, often 7 so we would have needed 2 of the 4 packs. I couldn't get everyone to agree to try them for $2400, so I have nothing to offer you but a sore back from lifting 2 extra monitors every gig since...
I too mentioned this system in a couple 'in-ear' monitor threads a long time ago, but nobody really responded to it, so I guess it's not widely known about. Disappointing because it really sounded to me that it'd be a great system for a pretty good price (per unit).
Let me know if you ever try it out, I'd certainly love to know if it's as good as it sounds.
I can't remember though...did you need a firewire on your mixing board to run this?

[RAM]

Originally Posted by DblG

I ran across the same system when I was doing research a few years ago. This system sounds like it'd be so good, where everyone gets their own unit to make their own mix for themselves. Unfortunately, we have 6 people in the band, often 7 so we would have needed 2 of the 4 packs. I couldn't get everyone to agree to try them for $2400, so I have nothing to offer you but a sore back from lifting 2 extra monitors every gig since...
I too mentioned this system in a couple 'in-ear' monitor threads a long time ago, but nobody really responded to it, so I guess it's not widely known about. Disappointing because it really sounded to me that it'd be a great system for a pretty good price (per unit).
Let me know if you ever try it out, I'd certainly love to know if it's as good as it sounds.
I can't remember though...did you need a firewire on your mixing board to run this?

We've already decided to make the plunge. The only downside I see right now is it's not wireless. I tend to move around the rehearsal room a bit, and don't like standing still onstage. The guitarist doesn't move from his microphone, since he sings, and the drummer and keyboardist are obviously stationary, as well. I may pop an extra few hundred for a wireless IEM system on top of this...

I really just wanted to see what anyone else had to say about it. If I understand it correctly, I don't think you need a mixer, as this system includes personal mixers (4 of them). Sending to a PA for FOH, all you need is this (which retails for $80) http://www.heartechnologies.com/exte...e_extender.htm

[RAM]

Anybody else with IEM experiences they'd like to impart on the unknowing?

[ReedSpacer]

I invested in IEMs earlier this year when rehearsing with a group that played far too loudly in a small rehearsal space with an inadequate PA for vocals. The IEMs served the dual purpose of blocking the excessive sound level of amplified instruments in the rehearsal room (thus saving my hearing) as well as making the vocals clear and audible.

One thing I discovered quickly was that having only vocals in the IEMs was a problem -- being unable to hear the instruments well made it difficult to mentally establish a reference pitch for singing on key, plus it gave an odd sensation of being "detached" from the music. So I ran mics from the drums and guitar, and lines from the bass, keyboards and PA (vocals) into a little mixer to make my own personal IEM mix at a comfortable level. Worked like a charm.

In my case I did not go wireless for the IEMs. I use a cable for my bass, so adding a second cable for the IEMs did not limit my mobility any further, plus it saved the expense of wireless gear.

[Seattle_BassMan]

I purchased the Westone UM-2's about six months ago. I don't use them for every gig (yet) since alot of the gigs we play have house PA's/soundmen and they already have floor monitors set up. However, there are a few casinos that we play where the soundmen have real problems with ANY stage volume. At these type of gigs I now leave my amp at home and just bring my bass, PODXT Live and IEM. And I've found that it really sounds good, as long as the whole band is mixed properly in my ears.

It does change the "feel" a little since there is no air moving around your body from the bass amp, but it doesn't really bother me that much. Plus, most of these gigs have floor wedges as well, so I can have them throw a little bass in the floor wedge so I can feel something (also, I can usually feel a fair amount of bass coming from their FOH Subs).

I've found that I really like it, but it did take some experimenting to get the right levels and mix to work well for me. I have the monitor mixer right next to me, so that I can make quick adjustments during the first few songs. After that I'm pretty good the rest of the night. The big question everyone wants to know is how do the IEM's sound. I've found that the UM-2's reproduce bass quite well. When no one else is playing the bass does sound slightly distorted to my ears, but once the whole band is playing then it sounds much like listening to a CD and I don't really notice any distortion. I love having vocals in the IEM's because I can hear so much better that the singing improves. However, we run monitor vocals dry and I find that I might like a little reverb on the monitor vox simply to add a little "air" between the vocals and my ears (just personal preference).

Also, I've been experimenting with using either just one IEM or both ears. I've found that I really like both ears in while playing the songs, but it can be a little challenging to hear bandmates talking between songs or audience members. So, I think we're going to mount an overhead mic on stage and maybe one pointing out to the audience. This may also help to add a little "ambience" to the mix.

All in all, I like them. So far 3 out of 5 of our bandmates are using IEM's and loving them. The other two are older/seasoned guys who are a little resistent, but I think they'll be switching over soon as well. As much as I like playing through an amp, it's very cool to just walk into a gig with a bass over one shoulder and the pod in the other hand and be set up in 5 minutes :-)

[lonotes]

I've just ordered the Hearback Four Pack. I should recieve it on Tuesday. I'll be using it in conjunction with the Westone UM-2 IEM's, and a Sennheiser Evolution 300G2. Tuesday evening, I am scheduled to have "impressions" made for custom earmolds for the UM-2's. I know that I could get away cheaper than this, with lower priced earbuds, or wireless system. But most people 'from what I've read, either love, or despise IEM's. I want to give every advantage to the idea. One of my guit*r players has a Nady wireless IEM, with Shure earbuds. I don't know which one, he has had it for over a year, and has never taken it out of the box. I will find out though, and post the info in the future. The other guit*rist and the drummer currently have no IEM gear. We will have to work on that.

I'm anticipating somewhat of a challenge as we learn a whole, new way to work. But, from everything that I have read, I expect that it will be worth it. I will try to post about our experience, as it develops, as I think that more than a few people may be interested. but hesitant due to the expense involved. Fair warning though, there will be long periods with no new info, as we only play out about once a month. Lately, our rehearsal schedule has been even less frequent.

[ihateusernames]

keep us updated on how this goes if you don't mind. considered it myself and work with tightwads unwilling to invest in anything that can help us sound better.....

[lonotes]

I'll do as best as I can. My guys are not really tightwads, just resistant to change. Sometimes, I think it's because they like complaining.

[lonotes]

Okay. I've just received the Hearback system. The first situation that I have encountered, I will not call a problem, but there is a difference between how I thought it operates, and how it actually does. The unit is advertised as having a stereo mix, and six "more me" channels. This it does. My band has two guitarist/vocalists, one drummer/vocalist, and myself (I have spent enough time in studios to know that I am NOT a vocalist ). I had planned on using the channels as such:

Chan 1 = Main signal (FOH signal taken from utility out)
This would be used as a "bed" so to speak, that other
signals would be added to, to taste, by each player.

Chan 2 = Vox 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 3 = Guit 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 4 = Vox 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 5 = Guit 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 6 = Vox 3 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 7 = Drum mix (signal taken from Aux 1 mix)
Chan 8 = Bass (signal taken from chan insert)

Now, my discrepancy comes from the fact that Chans 1-2 are linked, with only a volume control. Chans 3-4, 5-6 & 7-8 are linkable by use of a button on the individual mixers, but each channel has it's own independent volume control. Fortunately, on the input pigtail, channels 1-2 are separate plugs. they are not a stereo input ( all plugs on the pigtail are TRS, balanced), so some modification of my patch point list is in order here. I just have to determine which pair of signals can be combined into a stereo mix, and which must be independent. I will still have control over each side of the stereo mix, by using the pan control on the board. A compromise will have to be made, but in order to make no compromises regarding channel assignments, I would have to spend about another $1800 to go to the Aviom system. I guess, for that price, a few compromises can be made. So far, the most likely solution appears to be to not run my bass on it's own channel, but rather to get my bass into my mix through the second channel of my IEM transmitter. It's amazing, $1200 to give everyone except me the mix that they need. Oh well, that's rock & roll.

It'll probably be a few days before I have anything new to add, but I will post here as often as I can. By the way, just so that I'm not misunderstood, the system layout is exactly as advertised, I was mistaken in it's capability. I expect this to be a minor, easily solved situation.

[lonotes]

Well, it's been quite some time since I posted here, but last night was the first time that we have used the Hearback system. We had a few problems, but none that I can attribute to the new system.

The first problem that we had was channels going dead on the personal mixers. I believe this to be due to oxidation on the contacts of the direct outs (actually, insert points) of the FOH mixer, as when a channel would go out, it was out on all of the PM's. Wiggle the plug a little bit and it would come back on all PM's at once. For what it's worth, I don't believe that the channel inserts have ever been used previously on this board. The good news is that this system can be used on a PA as simple as a Mackie 808s!

But by far, the biggest problem that we had, was that (and I can't believe that this even has to be said) apparently, some people have to be instructed on the proper operational procedures for earbuds. Yep, that's right. One of my guit*r players couldn't figure out that if you don't secure the earbud cord *somehow* (inside your shirt, down your back is all that it really takes) that it may get tangled up with your guitar strap, or your picking hand, and pull the buds out of your ears. He got tangled up several times during the first two songs, and removed them halfway through the third song of the first set. He never put them back in, and constantly complained that he could not hear for the rest of the night. The other guit*r player refused to use them, at all. This, after setting the system up in his house a couple of days earlier, and him proclaiming the system to be the best thing since sliced bread. The drummer used the system all night long, but he also suffered from a lack of skill in operating earbuds. He left the cord dangling loosely down in front of him. and accidentally pulled the buds out of his ears a couple of times. He said that, to him, it was an odd sensation to hear himself so clearly in his ears, as opposed to coming from a floor wedge, but that it was something that he could probably get used to, and that overall he liked the system.

For myself, in order to simplify things, since this was the first time for me to use an in-ear system of any type, I opted to not use my wireless monitor or my wireless transmitter for my bass. Instead, I took a headphone extension cable with 1/8" connectors, and taped it to my bass cable. I ran my bud wire down the back of my shirt, and looped it around my belt. Then I took the headphone connector that was right there by my strap pin, and looped it around my belt, and plugged them together. The connection was secure, and it gave me no problems throughout the entire night. The biggest problem that I had with the system operation all night, was that we had not labeled the individual channel controls on the PM's, and therefore it was a little difficult. No fault of the system, but be advised, a little preparation can save a lot of frustration.

This review is, at this point, my observation of both the Hearback system, and my first experience with IEM's. As far as IEM's, in general, last night was the first time in nearly 30 years of playing, that I was able to hear everything! Normally I can only hear the drums, and whatever guit*r amp is right next to me. I usually cannot even hear my own amp well, because it gets sucked up into a sonic mush between floor wedges and the backside of FOH cabs, as well as room reflections. Last night, after a few adjustments to dial everything in, it was sonic heaven. I was able to hear myself, over everything else, and without running my amp very loudly,( at one point, I was even told by two of my bandmates to turn UP. I'll have to mark that one on my calender) at a level that did not leave my ears ringing at the end of the night.If not for dealing with my bandmates, I could almost go as far as to say...it was bliss. The Hearback system, itself gives a pretty good level of control to the individual player over what he or she hears, depending upon where you choose to pull your input signals from.

In short the clarity that can be had through the Hearback system and a good set of IEM's can be very revealing. It may even reveal that you are playing with idiots.

[ihateusernames]

Thanks for the update.

It seems we all play with idiots, I'm the only one who wears hearing protection and it almost isn't enough because of the insane volume on stage. We lifted the guitar cabs so they could be heard and the guys refuse to lower their volumes, my head is exactly 4 feet from a 50w head into a 2x12 every time.

Your experience leads me to the conclusion no matter how awesome a solution I come up with for the band, the guitar players will squash the application by not cooperating.

Good luck converting the monkeys!

[lonotes]

Thanks for your kind words. The ironic part is that it was the other guys that started my interest in both IEM's and personal monitor mixers. As an overall assessment of the Hearback system, I am impressed enough that I am currently selling off a lot gear in order to build a complete PA around it. I've still got a few operational bugs to work out, ie the best signal source for each input, and other similar details. But I am committed to the concept of IEM's, and the Hearback seems to be the best way to control them for the price.

[CElton]

Originally Posted by lonotes

I had planned on using the channels as such:

Chan 1 = Main signal (FOH signal taken from utility out)
This would be used as a "bed" so to speak, that other
signals would be added to, to taste, by each player.

Chan 2 = Vox 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 3 = Guit 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 4 = Vox 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 5 = Guit 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 6 = Vox 3 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 7 = Drum mix (signal taken from Aux 1 mix)
Chan 8 = Bass (signal taken from chan insert)

Now, my discrepancy comes from the fact that Chans 1-2 are linked, with only a volume control. Chans 3-4, 5-6 & 7-8 are linkable by use of a button on the individual mixers, but each channel has it's own independent volume control. Fortunately, on the input pigtail, channels 1-2 are separate plugs. they are not a stereo input ( all plugs on the pigtail are TRS, balanced), so some modification of my patch point list is in order here. I just have to determine which pair of signals can be combined into a stereo mix, and which must be independent. I will still have control over each side of the stereo mix, by using the pan control on the board. A compromise will have to be made, but in order to make no compromises regarding channel assignments, I would have to spend about another $1800 to go to the Aviom system. I guess, for that price, a few compromises can be made. So far, the most likely solution appears to be to not run my bass on it's own channel, but rather to get my bass into my mix through the second channel of my IEM transmitter. It's amazing, $1200 to give everyone except me the mix that they need. Oh well, that's rock & roll.

This is all very good stuff and our Praise team already uses IEM's but have been considering the Aviom system. Obviously, it is more expensive and this system appears to be a good alternative.

Please forgive me, but I may be one of the idiots you dealt with in your initial set up, but are you saying that each player does not or can not set up their own mix as the Aviom system does? Or, is this limited by the number of people plugging into the system?

Thanks...

[lonotes]

My original plan:

Chan 1 = Main signal (FOH signal taken from utility out)
This would be used as a "bed" so to speak, that other
signals would be added to, to taste, by each player.

Chan 2 = Vox 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 3 = Guit 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 4 = Vox 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 5 = Guit 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 6 = Vox 3 (signal taken from chan insert)
Chan 7 = Drum mix (signal taken from Aux 1 mix)
Chan 8 = Bass (signal taken from chan insert)


My actual channel assignments didn't vary a great deal from from this plan.

• Chan 1&2=(linked stereo pair) This was my starting point. Previously I referred to it as a "bed", the Hearback manual calls this the "Perfect Mix". I took this signal from a line out, on the FOH mix. On a larger desk, I would take this from Aux 1 & 2, panned L & R.
• Chan 3 = Vox 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
• Chan 4 = Guit 1 (signal taken from chan insert)
• Chan 5 = Vox 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
• Chan 6 = Guit 2 (signal taken from chan insert)
• Chan 7 = Vox 3 (signal taken from chan insert)
• Chan 8 = Bass (signal taken from chan insert)

This time around, we didn't mic the drums, as it was a very small room.

Each personal mixer had control over each of the above channels. It outputs to 2 line level outputs, and 2 headphone jacks. The line level outs can be used to send the signal to a wireless IEM transmitter, or a powered floor wedge, or to a traditional power amp and wedge. We only used the headphone outs to run IEM's, and they were plenty loud enough for a 4 piece classic rock band, in a noisy bar. I have the Hearback Fourpack system, which includes the Hub and four mixers. I can add as many as four more mixers to a single hub. If I ever need more than eight mixers, I can add another hub.

Hope this helps, and if I can answer anything else, just ask.

[Seattle_BassMan]

My band recently went with the Aviom system and we couldn't be happier. Finally we all have our own individual mixes and we can all hear everything perfectly. In order to make the most of the Aviom system we agreed to all use IEM's.

So now, each band member has their own individual 16 channel Aviom mixer attached to his mic stand. We can simply reach down and adjust the level of any instrument or vox at any time. I can now hear almost a CD quality mix in my IEM's. I absolutely LOVE IT!!! In fact in a couple of rooms we play, I don't even bring an amp, I just run my bass through a PODxt Live and directly into the Aviom and out to the FOH.

The rooms we play love this, because we can get the stage volume down to almost nothing but drums. The last casino we played was so impressed that they are thinking of installing an Aviom in their showroom permanently.

The only complaint(s) I have about this setup is that there are a lot of extra cables now, so we need to figure out a good cable management solution. And I now know that I definitely need the custom fitted ear molds. My earbuds tend to work themselves out ever other song, which is a little annoying.

I haven't used the Hear Tech system, but it looks pretty good. I looked at it initially but decided on the Aviom due to what I felt was better expandibility/control of the system. Although it was a lot more cost....ouch.

[lonotes]

And I now know that I definitely need the custom fitted ear molds. My earbuds tend to work themselves out ever other song, which is a little annoying.


I have the custom molds for my Westone UM-2's. In my opinion, the earmolds are well worth the money.


I looked at it initially but decided on the Aviom due to what I felt was better expandibility/control of the system. Although it was a lot more cost....ouch.

I looked at the Aviom, as well. For my application, I felt that I could get away with a little less flexibility, in return for the considerably lower cost. And I feel that the trade-off was in flexibility, not lower quality. All in all, it's a pretty good set of choices.

[iamtara]

I know this thread is a bit old. My church mate introduce me to try this personal monitor mixer but as a beginner i really don't have idea. But then thanks for all the inputs i got in here. Thank you guys.