Playing Jazz with the electric

[Blunt]

I am currently a bassist with a 17 piece big band that does probably about 70% material that would ideally suit an upright in terms of the "jazz" tradition. You know Glen Miller, Count Basie
The other material is contemporary funk compositions or classics like The Theme From Shaft for example. But they are spice for the mix.

I have worked extremely hard to produce walking lines that fit the music, get the right tone, do the mute thing etc and believe I am a more than competant "walker". But the feeling still remains that many people still feel that to be "jazz" you have to play the double bass.

Anyone else in this situation.

Thoughts and comments.

[Dave Muscato]

I play a Line6 Variax, lol... it does the trick. So you want a 1949 Kay upright? Turn the knob... I usually use the Modulus Flea or the MTD settings for what I play, though.

[Jace The Bass]

I'm with you too yep its all in the sound but I wouldnt worry too much about it because you are doing what is required outlining the changes which is why you were chosen but if youre worried about it that much you could always double or you could ( please forgive my rudeness) use a pedal that produces a upright sound

[RiseOfTheWooten]

Originally Posted by Blunt

But the feeling still remains that many people still feel that to be "jazz" you have to play the double bass.

Are you referring to ppl wanting to hear a double bass sound instead of a BG sound, or do they simply prefer to see a double bass in that role for nothing other than visually 'aesthetic' purposes?

[steveb98]

They hired you knowing you just play BG and you are changing your tone as appropriate then you're doing what you can. Some people will always want something different, you can't please everyone.

[gsys]

You can play traditional jazz with an electric sound just fine as long as you've got a natural (not compressed to smithereens) attack and decay in a clean tone. The whole muting thing IMO isn't worth it, since you're never going to make an electric sound like an upright, it'll just sound like an electric trying to sound like an upright. For that matter, if the issue is you don't want to switch, and you've got an upright, you could play the funk on it.

[Blunt]

Originally Posted by RiseOfTheWooten

Are you referring to ppl wanting to hear a double bass sound instead of a BG sound, or do they simply prefer to see a double bass in that role for nothing other than visually 'aesthetic' purposes?

Well i think the visual thing is a part of it. I am not concerned about the notes I am playing. They are fine. Just the vibe thats all.

I will defend the electric bass like an Anthony Jackson in that I think it does everything better including jazz. But not everyone is of the same colour.

[dodgy_ian]

not convinced about the electric doing everything better and if thats the vibe your putting out then maybe thats why people are being funny?

I reckon if its only 30% of songs are funk and 70% jazz you should maybe go down the upright route and have your electic there to grab for the funk numbers.....

or maybe just challenge yourself and do the whole lot on upright?

[RiseOfTheWooten]

Originally Posted by Blunt

I will defend the electric bass like an Anthony Jackson in that I think it does everything better including jazz. But not everyone is of the same colour.

I'm on your side on this if you're feeling you're being discriminated for not playing the DB. But I have to say that I don't agree that the BG does 'everything' better. I'm not saying that the DB does jazz better either. It's 'different'. Also, keep in mind that the DB was at the very start of jazz, that's why it remains as the romantic and endearing image (as well as the sound) of jazz as some people know it today.

[ras1983]

are the band members causing the unrest or are you comment on people in general?

if the band members don't care, then who gives a stuff.

to be honest, i prefer listening to a jazz performance that uses an electric bass because its so much easier to hear and it sound great when soloed.

but, nearly all of the local performers use uprights in their bands, and thats up to them, but it can be VERY difficult to hear the upright when you have guitars, horns, brass, woodwind, etc etc.

[Mojo-Man]

I've used a fretless Percision, with flats.
Gets the job done.

[cybersnyder]

IMHO, in a 17 piece setting, an electric would sound better. In a trio, I'd prefer upright.

Have you looked at the Barker Bass? He's under the Sponsored Forum section.

[BassChuck]

What's wrong with hearing the bass line? If you listen to those old recordings of Miller, and Basie etc the bassline gets gobbled up in all the sound. Electric works fine with jazz (in all settings). Just stay away from the 'metal' sounds.. too much treble and using a pick.

I'll bet the piano is amplified. I'll bet the wind players are playing better mouthpieces than they cats in the '30's and '40's did. I'll bet the whole band is louder than dance groups in 1944.

BTW, I've been told by guys who worked in the recording industry in the 1920's that bass players back then had to play DB and tuba. They used tuba in recording sessions (pre-electric mics) so the bass line could be heard.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Blunt

I have worked extremely hard to produce walking lines that fit the music, get the right tone, do the mute thing etc and believe I am a more than competant "walker". But the feeling still remains that many people still feel that to be "jazz" you have to play the double bass.

Anyone else in this situation.

Thoughts and comments.

I was in that exact situation a couple of years back. I got an EUB on a lark, but avoided showing it to my jazz band for a while for fear they'd demand I play it even though my chops were hugely better on fretless BG.

After a while I did bring the EUB to a practice, and was told to leave the BG at home permanently. Instead of fighting it, I worked hard to get up to speed on the electric upright. I now get gig offers all the time that never would've come on BG, and I hardly ever gig on BG anymore. I'm sure that many of these guys would prefer that I play a "real" upright, but it's not gonna happen. One band is asking me to bring a fretless around for some of the funky stuff, so I guess doubling is in my future after all. The two instruments are nowhere near interchangeable as far as I'm concerned.

Defending your choice is fine, but you are going to lose opportunities, IMHO. How much that matters to you is your call.

[Eric Cioe]

You should be able to play upright and electric if you're going to play in a jazz big band.

Whoever is saying that using a DB is unhearable in a big band and hasn't advanced since the 30's - we use amps most of the time now. The tone of the upright stays, and it now projects a little better. IMO, part of that big band sound is a non-prominent bass.

I think that you ought to be competant on both in a big band situation, and use them accordingly. When I did big band stuff, I played probably 60/40 upright/electric, but I played what was called for. Sometimes, though, I'd play some of the obviously electric songs on upright - upright funk is fun (and hard)!

[Snarf]

I consider myself a purist. I think that if you're playing in a big band, you should be playing upright. It's tradition, man. It's why I started doubling on upright.

For smaller situations, I find my precision with flatwounds does an okay job. I play in a trio that does very straight-ahead jazz. I usually play electric with them for convenience.

[Pacman]

People who say the electric is better at all things don't play upright. I play both, and for most jazz prefer the upright.

[dodgy_ian]

Originally Posted by Pacman

People who say the electric is better at all things don't play upright. I play both, and for most jazz prefer the upright.

+1

[Marcus Willett]

Though few will admit it, a lot of times it is about the look. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a jazz group where the "piano" player is using a Kurzweil or other synth, the guitarist is playing electric, even horn players using effects pedals. Oh but the bass has to be upright to make it "real" jazz. Bul***it. You can cop a reasonable DB vibe on electric; it's a combination of muting in the right way and also changing your mindset. It can be done. And no, it's not the same as a "real upright" of course, but then neither are the keys. But that's almost never a problem because it doesn't have as dramatic a difference in appearance.

Often times too, horn players that have worked with guys that play DB will do a jazz gig with an electric player that doesn't really have a concept of how to approach playing jazz on an electric. Maybe several over years, and eventually they make up their minds it can't be done. Once that prejudice is in their minds, it doesn't matter what they hear. They see an electric and have made up their minds.

I recently did a studio session with a an older trumpet player. The engineer (who is a friend of mine) hired me for the session, even though the guy really wanted an upright "so it'll sound like jazz". Before we started, the engineer played him some stuff we had done before when I was using my Wendler electrocoustic. The guy liked the way the stuff sounded and said something along the lines of "Well, that's more like it...I thought you didn't play upright tho...is that with a pickup or something?" And of course once he saw the instrument that he had liked the sound of just a few minutes earlier, he looked all disappointed.

I've seen this kinda stuff happen a lot. Guy who will get a gig playing upright who have the worst intonation you can imagine and drag the time into the ground, but producers like it 'cause it's got "the look".

Don't get me wrong; I'm not dissin' the DB. I'm simply saying it's a tool like any other tool. In the hands of a skilled player, any tool can produce good results if not great. In the hands of a schmuck, it's gonna be crap regardless.

If someone wants to be a purist; that's certainly your right. Though I think it's ironic that most of the icons of that mindset are guys that were usually trying new things and ideas to stretch and experiment and were not stuck on previous ideas.

Sure, lots of the experimenting that Miles did was junk, but at least he was willing to explore other ideas and approaches. It may be 95% crap and 5% brilliant stuff. That's actually a pretty good ratio when you really look at it.

[labgnat]

Originally Posted by Marcus Willett

Though few will admit it, a lot of times it is about the look. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a jazz group where the "piano" player is using a Kurzweil or other synth, the guitarist is playing electric, even horn players using effects pedals. Oh but the bass has to be upright to make it "real" jazz. Bul***it. You can cop a reasonable DB vibe on electric; it's a combination of muting in the right way and also changing your mindset. It can be done. And no, it's not the same as a "real upright" of course, but then neither are the keys. But that's almost never a problem because it doesn't have as dramatic a difference in appearance.

Often times too, horn players that have worked with guys that play DB will do a jazz gig with an electric player that doesn't really have a concept of how to approach playing jazz on an electric. Maybe several over years, and eventually they make up their minds it can't be done. Once that prejudice is in their minds, it doesn't matter what they hear. They see an electric and have made up their minds.

I recently did a studio session with a an older trumpet player. The engineer (who is a friend of mine) hired me for the session, even though the guy really wanted an upright "so it'll sound like jazz". Before we started, the engineer played him some stuff we had done before when I was using my Wendler electrocoustic. The guy liked the way the stuff sounded and said something along the lines of "Well, that's more like it...I thought you didn't play upright tho...is that with a pickup or something?" And of course once he saw the instrument that he had liked the sound of just a few minutes earlier, he looked all disappointed.

I've seen this kinda stuff happen a lot. Guy who will get a gig playing upright who have the worst intonation you can imagine and drag the time into the ground, but producers like it 'cause it's got "the look".

Don't get me wrong; I'm not dissin' the DB. I'm simply saying it's a tool like any other tool. In the hands of a skilled player, any tool can produce good results if not great. In the hands of a schmuck, it's gonna be crap regardless.

If someone wants to be a purist; that's certainly your right. Though I think it's ironic that most of the icons of that mindset are guys that were usually trying new things and ideas to stretch and experiment and were not stuck on previous ideas.

Sure, lots of the experimenting that Miles did was junk, but at least he was willing to explore other ideas and approaches. It may be 95% crap and 5% brilliant stuff. That's actually a pretty good ratio when you really look at it.

that's a nice pic of part of hong kong skyline. did you take that while on the star ferry or something?