Please help - my guitar playing is lousy

[bassybill]

I tried a quick search before posting this, but the search function ignores the word "guitar" so it wasn't much help, really.

Anyway - my 1st instrument is bass and it's the only one I would say I play with anything approaching "competence" (in other words, well enough to read stuff fairly fluently, can fit in on most sorts of gigs, and so on). But I dabble on keyboards well enough to do some recording, and even on drums I can get by. Also, if I did want to improve on these, I have pretty clear ideas about the best ways to practise.

But guitar? Hopeless. I'd like to get to a standard where I can add some fairly basic tracks to my home recordings, but I really need some suggestions about how to get better as I'm never sure how to start working on this. Any tips for practice, links to good sites I should visit, suggestions of tunes to learn and so on would be helpful. I've always said that the only way to learn an instrument is to do it "properly" and not try to take shortcuts, but in this case I'd bend my own rules a little.

I would be especially interested in hearing from folks who played bass first and then picked up some guitar later. How did you adjust?

Right, let's hear it, please. I'm all fired up and waiting for you guys to suggest ways that could help me improve.

[varunkapahi]

i learned to play the classical guitar for a bit right but if you could post a video or something of you playing then we'll know how well you can play already. i do have a some difficulty with the string spacing on steel string acoustic and electric guitars as classical guitars have wider spacing. playing with the pick was another pita anywho
the first thing you could do is run your scales, modes on all 6 strings and get used to the "odd" tuning between the 3 and 2nd strings when playing licks and stuff

[MalcolmAmos]

The difference -- The bass plays chord tones one note at a time the 6 string guitar plays melody notes one note at a time or strums the chords - all notes at one time. Two jobs 1) rhythm guitar and/or 2) lead guitar. Depends on what you want to improve. Rhythm guitar, playing the chords and accompaniment to the lead instrument or lead guitar playing the melody notes - being the lead instrument.

Yes you can do both, but, if you are trying to get the hang of how to play a 6 string acoustic/electric or pure electric I'd suggest you start with chords and comping. Yes an electric lead guitar plays chord accompaniment when someone else (the vocalist for example) has the lead. OK a few play echo melody, but, that is years from now.

Fake chord or lead sheet will provide the music. Pick music to the songs you like, no need trying to play songs I like. Google can find the music, use these key words; chords, "name of the song".

The strum - most everyone I play with have 3 or 4 basic strums and they mix and match them to the song being played. Pick thickness - acoustics like thick picks, up to 3 mm and electrics like the thin picks. Grab a bunch and see what you like. Play and comp your vocals. When you can play - changing chords and singing with out missing the beat your a musician in my book.

Your vocals are the melody. OK two verses of your vocals while comping the chords THEN take a lead break and stop singing and start playing melody on your guitar for 24 to 36 measures - then return to singing and comping.

Melody, now that is going to take some time. Couple of choices; tabs, which I hate, play by ear or play standard notation. Or leave the melody to others and settle into the rhythm guitar role. Running scales and or modes sound like you are running scales or modes; nothing like melody. Melody is the tune, that thing you whistle. Major scale stuff.

Good luck on the melody part.

[Bocete]

Play the same line you would on bass, only using power chords.

[Pearly Gator]

There are lots of free guitar lessons for all levels on YouTube. You might start there.

[bassybill]

It's definitely the rhythm stuff I need to work on. Melodies aren't really that hard from this particular starting point.

It's the actual mechanics of playing chords where I struggle; getting the left hand fingers to settle into the patterns I know but can't hit quickly enough, and strumming/picking accurately with the right hand to sound the strings I want and not the others.

[bassybill]

Originally Posted by Pearly Gator

There are lots of free guitar lessons for all levels on YouTube. You might start there.

Yeah, there's almost TOO many. That's the Internet age, I guess - the hardest thing is working out to find what you want and cut out the rest.

Thanks for the comments so far. keep 'em coming, especially if you're a bassist who's been playing for about 30 years who's just found out some good ways to learn guitar.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by bassybill

It's definitely the rhythm stuff I need to work on. Melodies aren't really that hard from this particular starting point.

It's the actual mechanics of playing chords where I struggle; getting the left hand fingers to settle into the patterns I know but can't hit quickly enough, and strumming/picking accurately with the right hand to sound the strings I want and not the others.

Every new rhythm guitar person has had this same problem, nothing new. I guess I should say I started on the 5 string Banjo, then Rhythm guitar then electric bass.

Only way to get your chord changing down is to practice it. OK you pretty well know what chords you will run into.

Key of C you'll be using the C, F and G7 chords why not practice how to get from a C to an F. From the F to the G7, etc. Yes your fingers are different than mine so figure out how/what your fingers need to do.

There is always another way to make any chord. You may find this helpful. http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/42 Perfect example of leaving the bass notes to the bass and you take care of the treble notes.

Good luck.

[bassybill]

^^^ Thanks for being so patient! To clarify a bit more, as varukapahi asked...

At the moment, my guitar playing is roughly like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpHmtA7LOk

And I'd like to get it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7Y08wOHs8

I hope that helps you guys keep up with the advice - ta!

[OneMoreRobot]

Originally Posted by Bocete

Play the same line you would on bass, only using power chords.

That's SO METAL!

No you're not hard core (no you're not hardcore) unless you live hard core (unless you live hard core)....

[Bocete]

Originally Posted by OneMoreRobot

That's SO METAL!

No you're not hard core (no you're not hardcore) unless you live hard core (unless you live hard core)....

YEAH!!!

[pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by bassybill

^^^ Thanks for being so patient! To clarify a bit more, as varukapahi asked...

At the moment, my guitar playing is roughly like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpHmtA7LOk

And I'd like to get it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7Y08wOHs8

I hope that helps you guys keep up with the advice - ta!

am I correct in assuming it's just technique you're after and you know the theory?

I got a lot better playing chords and strumming patterns by playing along w/ a lot of folk, then funk. start simple (and slow) you have a big advantage as you're already a musician and know what stuff is supposed to sound like.

coming from the other way around (played guitar for 20 years before I picked up a bass) it's frustrating to start from the top at this age. but slow repetitious playing is the way (proving you're holding the pick correctly) and arching your fingers (something that isn't as crucial on bass)

[MalcolmAmos]

First guy is a singer wearing a guitar.
Second person is a rhythm guitar player leaving/sharing the lead with others.

Practice songs. Now days play-a-longs and video selections are all over the Internet. Pull up some and play along.

Crawl, walk then run.

[blockinlay]

Get a music stand, pick a ton of songs you want to play, pick some that someone might want to hear, transpose each one on paper however it helps you personally using whatever means you have available, make it a set list, practice the crap out of them, video yourself so you can see where you suck and need to make corrections, then get out and play with others. If you have advance notice, get a set list. Print the lyrics to sing along. Try and learn at least 20 songs, then pick some to play 50 times a day till you have them exact in your muscle memory without mistakes. That'll strengthen and callus your fingertips. Put it on the stereo, and play along with the music. You can slow down the music if you play with Windows Media Player. Move on to the next few songs when those are ingrained in your brain. Use your pinky, try Pinball Wizard. Learn how to play power chords , then swap to leads from top to bottom on the fretboard in any key. Practice cool riffs you like over and over so they're second nature. Before you know it, you'll be zipping along. I played guitar first, and can jam all over the bass with leads, but nobody wants to hear that, except it fits when playing Rush tunes. I think it was Steve Howe said that getting out and playing with others taught him more about playing guitar than anything.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by bassybill

^^^ Thanks for being so patient! To clarify a bit more, as varukapahi asked...

At the moment, my guitar playing is roughly like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kpHmtA7LOk

And I'd like to get it like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu7Y08wOHs8

I hope that helps you guys keep up with the advice - ta!

are you talking about the guy who is not playing the guitar and just standing with it?

ok so the thing about chords is, i think of it as muscle memory. you have to really learn all the usual chords and learn to change between them as well as changing from G to C and then C to G needs to be practiced like two different changes imo as shifting three or four fingers at lightening speed is a lot of work. now the best thing about guitar is the bar chords, learn one and you know it in all the keys so do get comfortable with that too.
bar chords, there are four of them you gotta know majors and minor chords but with the roots on the 6th and the 5th string
so at the 1st position you have 4 bar chords without shifting, F Fmin Bb Bbmin. then you can learn the 7ths they are easy once you know the maj and min bar chords

[Kipaste]

Guitar playing is weird. I think most bass players can somewhat easily do lead guitar with a bit of practice (I don't mean legendary good, but enough to fake through a set) but that comping stuff is actually pretty hard.

So I second bills question. The second clip is exactly what I'm aiming for too. I could probably play that, but I'd have hard time making it sound so thin (in a good way) and lively. Even though I use a light set of strings and a light pick, with the bridge pickup in the strat, with bass and low mids almost completely rolled off, I get way too much string to string definition making it sound clumsy and awkward.

How do they make it sound so light and airy?!?!

[cripula]

Originally Posted by bassybill

Thanks for the comments so far. keep 'em coming, especially if you're a bassist who's been playing for about 30 years who's just found out some good ways to learn guitar.

Hi, you just described me

I know a lot of REALLY talented guitar players. My method is to phone each of them up and ask them for a lesson. I figure I can squeeze 2 lessons out of each guy before I become a total PITA, so by the time I've run through all my friends I should have a pretty good leg up in learning how to play...

Get a few lessons with a good teacher. They'll unlock the mysteries a lot faster than you'll figure it out yourself... though that's fun too.

[capnsandwich]

Learn a few open chords, G maj, A min, C maj, D maj, and learn the G maj scale as well as the C maj and E Min scales. A lot of those scales and chords are used in modern music. Once you master those other scales and chord will come to you, just like bass. I've learned that if you learn a few basic things then it'll open up TONS of other stuff simply by adding or subtracting 1 or 2 notes. The 4 string bass and the top 4 string on a guitar are identical theoretically. They're only off by an octave. The challenge is the top B and E strings, which are only off by a half step. You'll find that the guitar and bass are very similar in theory but very different in technique.

[CharlieS]

There is a lot of good advice already. I started on bass for a few years, then took up guitar. Like you, lead came fairly easily. However, my rhythm playing was lousy for a long time until I started playing guitar with bands and had to learn to do it right.

Muscle memory for your left hand and developing good strumming patterns are the big things. Just go back and forth on a I - IV progression in different keys until you get comfortable and can lock in with the beat, then work on a groove. You could try something like the Allmans' Blue Sky for a straightforward I - IV progression during the lead breaks. It's a lot of fun and is a good change of pace from bass playing.

[MIJ-VI]

In terms of rhythm guitar feel:

The strumming hand pulls the top of a chord out of the back beat via slightly accelerando and-a upstrokes.

Think rhythm guitar flying more than bass dancing.