Be Polite??

Turtle71 · #1 02-24-2010, 11:58 AM

Mods, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, so please move the thread if needed.

OK, here's the deal, my lead guitar player picked up a new head & cab, and has been using it at our last two practices....overall it sounds pretty nice, except everytime he mutes (think power chords) there is a horrible "voop" sound coming from the cabinet, IMO way too much bass. I doesn't really overpower me, I've got plenty of power, but it certainly adds quite a bit of "mud" to the overall sound.

I explained to him, that perhaps he could back off the bass a bit, and let me carry it for him, to which he responds "lots of bass is part of my tone".....I really do enjoy playing with him, and I can't believe the rest of the band doesn't notice (or perhaps don't want to say anything).

Should I talk with the rest of the guys and then "call him out" and the next band practice, hopefully with everyones support. Or should I take him aside and have a private conversation?

As I said before, I really do enjoy playing with him, and the rest of the guys for that matter, but I really believe his "tone" is going to make our next live show less than great...

JimiLL · #2 02-24-2010, 12:05 PM

Youre right. Ive got a guitard that plays through a Mesa Tri Axis into a Mesa cab. His bass is set around 6.

For me to feel like Im putting enough "bass" out there, I have to be boosted in the low end too much to sound, well, like a bass. Its muds and booms things up.

I asked him if he could try rolling off some lows. After a long pause, he said "yeah I could consider something like that".

The setting never changed

joshmat · #3 02-24-2010, 12:12 PM

I'd suggest the side convo. If you need something to back up your theory, you could grab a quick recording of a practice and show him how muddy it is ... a spectrum analyzer could also provide the appropriate "proof". Tact is definitely key since you're basically talking about his tone ... think if he asked you to change yours!?!?!?

lowfreq33 · #4 02-24-2010, 12:16 PM

He has to have it that way so that when he makes a mistake he can blame it on you.

Jehos · #5 02-24-2010, 12:41 PM

Recordings don't lie. Just be nice, ask him to experiment. Record with his settings, then roll his bass off and record that way. Ask the whole band which sounds better, then go with the band's decision.

Tomis17 · #6 02-24-2010, 10:08 PM

If that's his tone maybe he picked up the wrong instrument. I would hand him the bass.

phatbass · #7 02-24-2010, 10:25 PM

When he grows up, he'll maybe realise he has to think in terms of how his sound sits in the overall band sound rather than how it sounds when he's playing on his own.

testing1two · #8 02-24-2010, 11:56 PM

buy a lottery ticket the day you find a guitar player that cares more about the band than his tone.

shadow_FIX · #9 02-25-2010, 12:10 AM

Be persistent. Tell him he needs to at least try rolling the bass down. I've met that ignorant guitar players that loves that wet bass sound, but you just have to make them realize that's not what the guitar should sound like. Sometimes I wonder why they even allow that much gain for bass on guitar amps.

Turtle71 · #10 02-25-2010, 05:43 AM

Thanks for the comments guys. We've got band practice again tonight, but I'm going to meet "insert name here" for lunch today with the hopes of having a civil conversation regarding his tone & my responsibility for providing the low end of our sound.

As a couple of you have said, it is his tone we're talking about, so I guess if I were in his position I may have been on the defensive as well. I just hope I can convince him that I'm not trying to make him "sound worse", I'm trying to make us all "sound better".....

Fire-Starter · #11 02-25-2010, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

He has to have it that way so that when he makes a mistake he can blame it on you.

derridiandrift · #12 02-25-2010, 05:54 AM

I was in a band about 10 years ago where one of the guitar players was using a dual rectifier with the oversized cab. He had so much bass in his "sound" that when my bass rig went down in the middle of a tune I didn't realize it until song was over. This is also the same guy who insisted on a particular place on stage because that's where Joe Perry sets up his rig. The guy was a raging idiot.

As soon as I found a better gig, I moved on. He's not playing any more. I'm turning down gigs because I have all the work I want. That was my solution.

Turtle71 · #13 02-28-2010, 07:43 AM

Well, I had the conversation with my lead player.....he agreed to roll off some bass at least for that band practice. I was floored, I expected HUGE resistance.

We ran through the set with his existing "tone". Then we ran through it again with his bass rolled back. Afterward we all talked about the difference in tone. The overall consensus was that the lowered bass setting sounded better.

I can't help but think that bass knob will slowly find it's way back to "mud" sooner or later though.

rllefebv · #14 02-28-2010, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle71

I can't help but think that bass knob will slowly find it's way back to "mud" sooner or later though.

It may... 'Bedroom' tone is not 'Bandstand' tone... Same goes with the Bass... We all know that 'smiley' face EQ sounds great solo but doesn't always get it on the gig!

FWIW, after a few years of having this same discussion in my band, they're all starting to work it out... Yeah, we're still loud, still bassy, but... Strides are being made. Continue to speak out for good tone!

-robert

Elmo Oxygen · #15 02-28-2010, 12:14 PM

Found this at the store last night, I think this is a good place to throw it in:

Turtle71 · #16 02-28-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmo Oxygen

Found this at the store last night, I think this is a good place to throw it in:

LOL, that's friggin' awesome!

Crockettnj · #17 02-28-2010, 12:52 PM

probably a great example of someone reading and playing alone a lot and working really hard to get "that tone". Only he didnt, or doesnt yet, realize that the bedroom-alone-tone only bears a passing resemblance to a good mix.

I've run into this with guys who play alone a lot. I also run into it quite a bit with our synth player, but thats a little more understandable and I have learned to give him more room by altering my live tone.

IMO Its about space and making music. I have a ton to learn in this area, but the more I liearn the more i learn that a lot of other people have even more to learn. :-)

Elmo Oxygen · #18 02-28-2010, 12:54 PM

I thought so too. Feel free to use the image however you'd like.

NickRich · #19 02-28-2010, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crockettnj

probably a great example of someone reading and playing alone a lot and working really hard to get "that tone". Only he didnt, or doesnt yet, realize that the bedroom-alone-tone only bears a passing resemblance to a good mix.

+1

Had a gig last night with a guitarist like that. Musicians in the audience told me his tone was undefined. What a surprise, considering he cuts his mid and boosts his lows.

M0ses · #20 02-28-2010, 03:04 PM

I used to have this problem. My guitard is a pretty cool guy, though. I told him that I thought he had too much bass, and of course his reply was "I like having bass, it's part of my tone."

But all I had to do was tell him the truth. "You know, man, you're right. The tone you have sounds really good, I actually really like it, when you play alone. But when the band is playing, your tone just isn't working. I really think that you'll be a lot happier with the band's sound as whole if you back way off on the bass, and crank your mids (he was using a scooped tone, all bass and treb with no mids)." He agreed to try it, and after listening to it, also agreed that it sounded much better that way.

So yeah, just butter him up a bit but ask him to give the right way a chance.