Pop music production whats happened?

bass71 · #1 01-01-2008, 01:36 PM

Man, call me old (48), or whatever but what has happened to the pop recording industry.

I've just found on the Tube a couple of soul tracks by producer Ian Levine from the late 70's early eighties, and have to say I'm blown away by the brass, string, and general musical arrangements. They are so clear and musical it brought tears to my eyes.....Yikes!

These old tunes were produced and arranged by guys who made it their business to really understand the creative music making process before it was considered de-rigour to have a qualification in studio craft etc etc. These tunes actually sound like someone sat down and really thought about the layout out of the songs and what instruments to put where.

For my money everythings got too regimented and technical. Contemporary stuff sounds to me like it was literally made by computer. Dull, flat and lacking the golden rules of good music making, structure, harmonics, and dynamics.

gweimer · #2 01-01-2008, 01:50 PM

I would suggest you listen to Muse. They are an example of the return of big production. They also have great songwriting sense.

dave64o · #3 01-01-2008, 05:40 PM

This article is several years old but it's no less true today, and is probably even more so:

Rip Rowan of ProRec - Over the Limit

Marcus · #4 01-01-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass71

For my money everythings got too regimented and technical. Contemporary stuff sounds to me like it was literally made by computer. Dull, flat and lacking the golden rules of good music making, structure, harmonics, and dynamics.

A bit of a sweeping generalization, don't you think?

Jazz Ad · #5 01-01-2008, 06:12 PM

I think a lot of master producers should take their compressors, shove them where the sun don't shine and try to make something that will sound good on a regular hifi system rather than on a mp3 players with earbuds or as a cellphone ring melody.
Unfortunately it won't happen since producers need to aim at what makes money first.

Matt Till · #6 01-01-2008, 06:45 PM

There is some truth to what you say, but it goes both ways. I've heard some 70s pop that was dull/lifeless, and I've heard some modern pop that was well composed/dynamic. And a lot of the pop you are probably talking about is made for dance purposes. Simplicity and a driving consistent rhythm are what people more often than not want in a dance song.

Jazz Ad · #7 01-01-2008, 08:16 PM

It's not only disco stuff. You'd be hard pressed finding a rock album that isn't compressed to the max with autotuned voices.

Snarf · #8 01-01-2008, 08:37 PM

How could ANYONE say that Muse is well produced/engineered? They are the posterboys for awful sound, everything is maxed out 100% of the time. It's white noise.

I agree that most recordings in the last ten years sound pretty bad, but it's not due to compression, it's due to the abuse of limiters. Compression can be a very beautiful sound (case in point: Rush circa 1980-1991). But using limiters as boosters for the master signal is a recipe for crap.

My absolute favs for quality of sound come from the 80's. That was a time of high artistry for engineering.

Jazz Ad · #9 01-01-2008, 08:57 PM

Compression, limiter, just a different setting for the same machine. They're essentially the same thing.

Snarf · #10 01-02-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Compression, limiter, just a different setting for the same machine. They're essentially the same thing.

Physically the same yes, but limiting is a hugely different application. It doesn't sound the same, it isn't used the same.

PaulMacCnj · #11 01-02-2008, 11:12 AM

I guess it depends on the targeted audience and if radio air-play is a factor. Two CDs, for example, of very different production quality from the same year (2007) are Porcupine Tree "Fear of a Blank Planet" and Bruce Springsteen "Magic". PT's recording is spectacular. Clear, very wide dynamic range, strong bass, thuderous drums, etc. Bruce's CD is pretty muddy. It's highly compressed, low distinction between the different instruments and, as typical of a Bruce recording, the bass is down in the mix. Guess which CD was targeted for air-play...

Visirale · #12 01-02-2008, 01:49 PM

It's all about money... the less you pay in production values, the more profit you make. Computer programs can do everything... so why hire a real person to do it? It's a shame, but it's the way the industry is going. As someone who has an interest in business, I can appreciate some of this... it hurts as a musician, but money is money. One of the latest bloc party tracks uses a cliched chord progression, programmed drums, keys, and a looped guitar track. The only real part of the song are the vocals. It also happens to be extremely catchy and I know it will be a big hit and they'll make a lot of money on it.

So yeah, the quality of production has gone down a lot... but I wanna hop on the train and make some money from it. If I do open a label, I will make sure to have my "cash" artists to pay the bills, but I'll also take chances on artists who are more "musical."

Bassic83 · #13 01-02-2008, 01:57 PM

Yeah, but how do they DANCE? THAT's what sells music. The dancing. Choreography and wardrobe. The light show and pyrotechnics are a close second, followed (distantly) by things like songwriting, arrangements, and sound quality...

5andFretless · #14 01-02-2008, 02:53 PM

It really sucks if you are in a cover band. Try covering some of the new popular stuff with a normal 5 peice band. If you can get the instruments close and the keyboard guy knows his way around the samples, you still have the doubled and tripled lead vocals and the sound threshold problems.

Snarf · #15 01-02-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Visirale

It's all about money... the less you pay in production values, the more profit you make. Computer programs can do everything... so why hire a real person to do it? It's a shame, but it's the way the industry is going. As someone who has an interest in business, I can appreciate some of this... it hurts as a musician, but money is money. One of the latest bloc party tracks uses a cliched chord progression, programmed drums, keys, and a looped guitar track. The only real part of the song are the vocals. It also happens to be extremely catchy and I know it will be a big hit and they'll make a lot of money on it.

So yeah, the quality of production has gone down a lot... but I wanna hop on the train and make some money from it. If I do open a label, I will make sure to have my "cash" artists to pay the bills, but I'll also take chances on artists who are more "musical."

Oh man, people like you depress me. The US has bred such a capital-centric, money-hungry society. The fact that you're all about it is sad.

calebplaysbass · #16 01-02-2008, 08:08 PM

Yet another of the many reasons why i don't bother with current mainstream music. I spend all my time listening to either new acts that care about their music and thus do not find their way into the limelight or old stuff (this ranges from about 1977 back to about the 1300's...have to love the Renaissance stuff).

Music now is a sad state of affairs.

Visirale · #17 01-02-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarf

Oh man, people like you depress me. The US has bred such a capital-centric, money-hungry society. The fact that you're all about it is sad.

What? I see a trend, realize it's profitable and exploit it? That's how money is made and businesses are successful. Truly unique artists never enjoy wealth. I'm not saying it's right... I also said I'd devote funds to experimental music... but I want to pay the bills and be able to travel extensively and have nice houses and cars... Yeah it sucks, but that's how it is these days. You can either make money on it or not... I'm choosing to do the former.

AdlerAugen · #18 01-03-2008, 03:20 AM

Well thank goodness for classical musicians who wouldn't let someone THINK of doing that to their recordings. They have the right idea. And skills. Unfortunately it's a smaller job market....

bass71 · #19 01-03-2008, 03:35 AM

Ok. Interesting, but I've heard all these arguments before. True there was some dull stuff from the 70's, but it's the good stuff from then that simply blows away everything that is being done now, with regard to production/engineering values, and even dare I say writing.
And yes maybe Im talking about dance/disco/popular, but when did you last hear strings and brass on a Rush tune?.

**Pacman** · #20 01-03-2008, 05:17 AM

There's plenty of great production going on today - you just don't hear it. Want strings and brass? Go check out Incognito.