Post Jaco Recovery Group

bassksun · #1 09-08-2006, 09:46 AM

It seems like every other jazz player sounds like Jaco:

budda budda budda bup bup...TWANG!

I'm listening to the radio and hear a Jaco esque tune and I think "Oh a Jaco tune I haven't heard before!"

Nope. Bunny Brunel.
Same thing again.
Nope. Gary Willis.
Nope. Matt Garrison.
Nope. Manring.
And over and over again with any number of known and lesser known bassists.

Ditto for slap and pop.

Aaaargh.

I'm more dedicated now to finding my own sound. Creatively.

How about you?

Albot · #2 09-08-2006, 09:53 AM

Good. let me know when you find it and I can write some BassKsun-esque tunes! LOL J/K
I think there most of us are constantly searching for our own sound too. Maybe the answer is in your sig. (duke ellington) those guys you named are playing what they could master.

vision · #3 09-08-2006, 09:56 AM

I personally don't think any of those players sound like Jaco. They have all developed their own very unique styles...

NJL · #4 09-08-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vision

I personally don't think any of those players sound like Jaco. They have all developed their own very unique styles...

+1

bassksun · #5 09-08-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albot

Good. let me know when you find it and I can write some BassKsun-esque tunes! LOL J/K
I think there most of us are constantly searching for our own sound too. Maybe the answer is in your sig. (duke ellington) those guys you named are playing what they could master.

Naww. Well maybe.

Matt Garrison avoided it for the longest. Then he bowed to critical and market pressure.

Manring has been upfront about it.

I'll sue your a$$...

Captain Scarlet · #6 09-08-2006, 10:04 AM

Well, a lot of players have lines that sounds like Jaco because he was so influential.

Personally, I've never tried to sound like him (I don't play at that level), but I have stolen his trick of playing near the bridge with the back pickup favored. It adds another color to the tone palette.

I think finding one's own sound and style is great if you're a solo bassist, but keep in mind that we bassists often get hired by people to get a certain sound and play and certain style. In that case, knowing how to play like Jaco or other bassists might be a valuable asset.

bassksun · #7 09-08-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vision

I personally don't think any of those players sound like Jaco. They have all developed their own very unique styles...

Well maybe...
That is why I say Jacoesque. You can always tell in the phrasing how much of their sound is owed to Jaco.

bassksun · #8 09-08-2006, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Scarlet

Well, a lot of players have lines that sounds like Jaco because he was so influential.

Personally, I've never tried to sound like him (I don't play at that level), but I have stolen his trick of playing near the bridge with the back pickup favored. It adds another color to the tone palette.

I think finding one's own sound and style is great if you're a solo bassist, but keep in mind that we bassists often get hired by people to get a certain sound and play and certain style. In that case, knowing how to play like Jaco or other bassists might be a valuable asset.

True. That is the market. Gotta have the Jaco tool in the bag to make $$. I would like to have more play by others. For instance, I called the radio station and asked them for more Dave Holland...the guy said "Who? Oh the Dutch guy?"

NJL · #9 09-08-2006, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassksun

For instance, I called the radio station and asked them for more Dave Holland...the guy said "Who? Oh the Dutch guy?"

Actually, that is kind of ###### up!

Holland is a total bad ass.. not to hijack, but do you have that solo album where it's just him???? Amazing...

Naveed Afzal · #10 09-08-2006, 10:20 AM

that style is fun to listen to regardless of whose doing it...

they arent jaco theres only one...

Baryonyx · #11 09-08-2006, 10:23 AM

TS, I love the guys you listed. I love their playing, every one of them. Yes, they all cop the occasional Jaco lick and it's clear that they all love him, but they're all excellent nonetheless. I want more!

dougjwray · #12 09-08-2006, 10:38 AM

I'm tired of them.
I love Pino Palladino, but the first time I ever heard him on a recording (in 1983 or 1984-- maybe Paul Young's album?), I couldn't help but notice that, in addition to playing fretless, he was even throwing in, like, Jaco's three favorite licks! (Sitting here now, I remember the "Rite of Spring" lick.) It was just a bit too blatant for me.
Yesterday, I was listening to a 1983 Michael Hedges recording with Michael Manring on fretless bass. Total cop of the Jaco tone.
I think a lot of people sound like him, though, because the Jazz Bass bridge-pickup-only setting makes the bass speak with such less effort, in turn making soloing easier... it's like he solved the technical problem for us, so if we don't mind sounding like clones -- in the tone department, at least -- we can make the axe work efficiently, so to speak.
Quite a few times in the '80s, a producer would see me get out a Jazz Bass and say immediately, "I don't want the Jaco tone on this!"
Luckily, I have more of a natural affinity for the Jamerson sound, so I haven't had to struggle with separating myself from the ubiquitous "Jaco tone."

#13 09-08-2006, 10:38 AM

To me, it really becomes a moot argument. On one hand, you could say there's far too many Jaco knockoffs out there, but on the other hand, there's more than enough Graham / Clarke / Miller knockoffs (as you said though), the Matt Hoppus knockoffs, the Adam Clayton knockoffs, the James Jamerson knockoffs, and etc. In reality, almost everybody's a shadow of everybody else, whether one realizes it or not.

I don't think there's anything in particular we can do to change that, but in particular, it does always seem strange that many members of Talkbass (not thinking of any one in particular) seem quite afraid to look at the bass out of the box. If anything, I'm surprised there aren't as many Cliff Burton knockoffs as one might ponder.

JimK · #14 09-08-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJL

Holland is a total bad ass.. not to hijack, but do you have that solo album where it's just him???? Amazing...

Holland new album, Critical Mass is out with new Viriginia homeboy Nate Smith on cans.
Happenin'...

JimK · #15 09-08-2006, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris2112

TS, I love the guys you listed. I love their playing, every one of them. Yes, they all cop the occasional Jaco lick and it's clear that they all love him, but they're all excellent nonetheless. I want more!

...don't forget 'The African Jaco', Richard Bona.

bassksun · #16 09-08-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tired_Thumb

To me, it really becomes a moot argument.

Not an argument. Just a rant.

Lazylion · #17 09-08-2006, 10:46 AM

I still love Jaco's music. Anybody who can play in a Jacoesque style gets my respect.

"I called the radio station and asked them for more Dave Holland...the guy said 'Who? Oh the Dutch guy?'"
Now that's funny!

Craig Garfinkel · #18 09-08-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassksun

Naww. Well maybe.

Matt Garrison avoided it for the longest. Then he bowed to critical and market pressure.

Manring has been upfront about it.

I'll sue your a$$...

Say wha? I know Matt and Gary, have taken a few lessons with both of them, neither one is anything close to a Jaco clone, and they've certainly never "bowed to critical and market pressure" in order to do so. What would make you think that? What critical and market pressures exist that would force them, or any other player for that matter, to sound just like Jaco?

When has Michael Manring threatened to sue anybody over anything?

And, for what it's worth, most of the jazz players I listen to play the double bass. Not many of them, with the notable exception of Brian Bromberg, sounds anything like Jaco.

jady · #19 09-08-2006, 11:00 AM

Not to start a heresy here but something occured to me about 5-6 years ago. I was in a HUGE Jaco phase. I was picking up everything i could find with him on it. The NYC bootleg series, his solo discs, Weather Report, joni mitchell, and i had the luck to be roomates with a Taper/Trader who had access to literally hundreds of bootleg cds with jaco playing in various scenarios.

One day I realized that I had heard the lick he was playing before so I went back and listened to a bunch of the bootlegs from different years and payed attention to the licks he was playing and discovered something earthshattering........... Jaco had a standard set of licks and riffs he used over and over again just like i do. The licks and riffs are just really, really rad!!!! He approached bass playing like all of us do, he wasnt a god or prophet, he wasnt divinely inspired, he was a bassist. He got better through practicing many, many hours a day and eating, sleeping and craping bass!!

Dont get me wrong, Jaco was and still is a major influence in my playing, his tone, phrasing, chops, and interpitation of the song he was playing was and still is superb (hearing him play Dear Prudence opened my thinking up a bunch).

I guess my point is, every player, no matter how much he/she expands role of the instrument, no matter how many chops, no matter how progressive, is still human and a bassist. Just like me, just like the cat who started playing last week, just like the cat who has made a living at it for the last 40 years. The thing that really sets these players apart from us "mere bassists" is dedication and years of focused, hard work.

That makes me sleep better at night.

Chunk-O-Funk · #20 09-08-2006, 11:00 AM

I don't know, I agree and also disagree with what you state.

I really don't think it as intentional as you think or driven by any kind of market. I belive it's more these bassist simply studying their instrument. Just like a concert pianist will study Bach and Mozart, a bassist will study our own masters and as a result will have injected that style and sound into their own style. To say the bassist you listed lack originality is simply wrong. Heck, even Jaco himself stole that 16th note funk from Jerry Jemmott.

So yeah, some bassist will sound like other as they evolve. Simply put they're are Jaco, Rocco, Miller, Patitiucci and the rest of us. Included in that are all the flavors in-between. Not every great bassist is going to explode into the music scene with a completely original style and sound.

Am I sick of hearing it? No. Most of us will take the melting pot method of finding our own sound and from it we will hear variations of a great thing

Do we all aspire to be original and leave a dent in the universe? Of course.