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  #1  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:30 PM
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This probably won't be popular, but here it is.

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I found this awhile back, and it hit real close to home after having been on this forum for around a year now. It uses guitar examples, but I think it's just as applicable to us bass players.

The first paragraph is a guy emailing Lindy Fralin asking for his advice on a modification to his Strat.

Enjoy.

---

I'm looking to replace the Vintage Noiseless pickups in my Strat (they're to "brittle" sounding). I'm probably going to get a set of Fralin's, and am wondering what would be the appropriate meg pots for the pickups. I'm looking for a clean sound like Eric Johnson - bell like and round (not to bright, but still articulate). Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

John Doe (NOTE: Not his real name)

As you can see, the fellow above is a little confused. Probably the best thing to do is ask Mr. Fralin himself what value of pot to use, but nothing like throwing out a bone for the newsgroup.

What is this guy talking about? He is on the trail looking for that elusive commodity, tone. You know -- woman tone, brown sound, Dimebag's tone, Strat-like tone….whatever tone. He wants his rig to sound like Eric Johnson's. Assuming he doesn't have a "pile" of Dumbles, Marshalls, Kendricks, etc., he is thinking a set of Fralins and the right pot will set everything right. The real missing element is much more daunting -- he probably can't play as well as Eric Johnson, and no matter what he buys, he'll still sound like himself! What a sad reality! Oh by the way -- according to a magazine I bought recently, Mr. Johnson played an ES- 335 on Cliffs of Dover, one of his most famous songs. So...is Mr. Johnson's tone related to the Strat or the 335?

We as players are always looking for that little something extra to make us sound good. However, I've found that gear acquisition syndrome (GAS) is nothing more than one's inability to face reality. That reality is that one more piece of gear will not make you a better player. I've always advocated buying a quality guitar and amp, then set about to really learn how to play. A really good player can make an inexpensive guitar and amp sound great. Unfortunately, a really good rig can't make a poor player into good one.

Here is a great example. I was at Tommy's Guitar Shop in Viersen (northwest of Düsseldorf) last Saturday. It was simply awesome -- a shop full of great Les Pauls and good players. While I was playing a new Les Paul Historic Reissue through one of the new Gibson Goldtone amps, the subject of Dickie Betts and The Allman Brothers came up. To keep my "one-upsmanship" going, I immediately stated that I had met Dan Toler, who had played with Dickie in Great Southern, as well as in the Gregg Allman Band. I saw Dan in 1986 at the Opry House with Gregg Allman -- they warmed-up for SRV. A great show in a great room.

The guys in the shop were impressed, and asked a lot of questions about Dan Toler. His refinished Les Paul came up, as did his massive tone. I told them about 'the tape' -- the killer tape of Dan playing Cross to Bear with some friends of mine. The tape is about 10 years old now, and it captured a rehearsal of The Taylor Brother's Band from Manchester, Tennessee. Dan and my friend Ken, who was a guitarist in the band, struck up a friendship when Dan lived near Manchester. Through my association with Ken I got to meet Dan, visit his house, see his gear, and actually play some guitar with him. A nice fellow, and an awesome picker.

The story of the tape is that Dan showed up at the rehearsal at Ken's house, picked up the lead singer's late 1970's ES-335, and plugged straight into an old blackface Fender Pro Reverb. Ken said Dan "turned everything up to 11" on the amp, and the band started the song. I had heard this exact 335/Fender rig many times before, and I never thought it really sounded great. However, when Mr. Toler started his soloing, my jaw just dropped. How could it sound that way? How come he is so good?

I listened to that tape again last night, and made a safety copy of the cassette to my DAT machine. I actually listened to it twice, which is rare for me. It is pretty moving. Click here to download an MP3 of the song -- it is killer!

Based on some analysis, the answer to this question is that Dan Toler is a really good player that could probably make any guitar sound good. When we go see a guitarist we immediately assume the reason he or she sounds so good is based on the guitar and amp or effects combinations. What is really hard to deal with is when you hear Dan Toler literally obliterate a "decent" sounding rig, one which most guitarists wouldn't give a second look.

The next time you hear someone talking trash in a music store about tone, remember this example about Dan Toler. When I listened to the tape, I asked myself: Was it the amp and guitar combination that was responsible for that tone? Was it the cord? What kind of strings was he playing? Had Dan eaten a big meal prior to the session? Did he use finger weights? The answer is that Mr. Toler had the technique, confidence, and maturity not to get "wrapped around the axle" about the guitar's action and tone, nor the amp he was playing through -- he just strapped that 335 on like a grownup and played his butt off.

You see, the fellow that left the post above is going to continue to be disappointed. He probably doesn't realize what pots do, or the effect they have on the guitar. He just wants to sound like Mr. Johnson.

My recommendation to John Doe above is to save your money, keep the Noiseless pickups, and start practicing really, really hard.

---

Discuss.
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  #2  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:33 PM
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Deep down, I really agree with the main point of the story. I also agree it won't be popular.
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  #3  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:39 PM
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Especially interesting coming from a guy who makes and sells replacement pickups.
Gotta respect that.

New gear won't make me play better. It *might* make me sound better, but improving my playing *will* make me sound better.

New gear is for fun, and because one can...
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  #4  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:42 PM
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ok...I agree...

but...as an experienced player...I find this...

I have 3 basses...a P-bass (that I recently went from active EMG's to a cheap passive pickup as I didn't like the active tone)...I have an active 5-string Jazz (I really dig the modern tone on this)...and I have a piezo-only semi-hollow bass...

they all have a completely different tone, and the tones when I play all sound like ME...but different...

so while a different pickup WILL change the tone, it WON'T make you sound like anyone else and it won't even make you sound "good" necessarily...it will only make you sound ...

different
  #5  
Old 08-21-2008, 06:42 PM
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AMEN!
The player is still the most important part of it all..

Last edited by John Wentzien : 08-21-2008 at 06:47 PM.
  #6  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:00 PM
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agreed
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  #7  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:02 PM
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A wise salesmen once said: "There's nothing wrong with your playing that more gear won't fix."
  #8  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:08 PM
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And just for the record, this isn't anything personal against those who submit to to the GAS...I'm as guilty as anyone

Just a little reminder not to let GAS get in the way of playing/enjoying yourself. Nothing wrong with something new once in awhile
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  #9  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:09 PM
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Ok, so where is the mp3?
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  #10  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:09 PM
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Gotta agree. I´m yet to see pups or pots that can´t be eq´d to sound so close enough to one anoter that the audience can´t tell the difference. Rics eq´d like jazzes, p´s and vice versa.

I do have to admit that I have a bass that I "think" has the best tone on earth. I also have to admit that that I´ve heard studio recordings that make squiers sound like said bass.

To top things, ive heard players that sound exactly like themselves no matter what bass they play.
  #11  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:09 PM
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Good article, and worth taking to heart if you are a second year player picking out your fifth expensive bass, but I don't think it's something that applies to everyone. There's more to new gear than just "the elusive tone" or whatever. Gear is a set of tools, and the right tools in the right hands make for wonderful results.
  #12  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:22 PM
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so, this isn't lindy fralin responding, right?
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:27 PM
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tl;dr
  #14  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:29 PM
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I agree 100% you see it here everyday perfect example http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f126/

You will notice more high end gear being sold, traded, here then anywhere I bet you a good portion of it was under the ideal that....


A.) A better bass will make me sound better

B.) If I get this bass it will make me play more justifying its ownership

C.) So and so player uses it so if I get it I will sound like them

D.) I need this bass cause mine is no good when in fact it turns out most of us miss said basses we sold for a greener grass on the other side of the fence.



I PLAY CHEAP BASSES I MOD..

I will admit it loud and proud. I think my tone is ok, but then again I have no clue how to master a tone on tape so LOL..

But im happy for once in my life. I got 5 basses that I modded an with a grand total of about $600 invested. I can cover a huge range of sounds with said basses.

I have no focused more on playing then worrying what I was playing. Its great.

Since my little dawning, I have sat down and figured out songs I thought were impossible cause I spend more time playing and practicing then I do wondering on how this or that bass is going to make me better. Only to find out if I played a SX or a Fodera I still had the same issues..

Nothing will ever replace hours of grooving to get better and achieve things. And in that process you might develop that your tone isnt as bad as you thought it just needed time to develop properly.

A good setup and some practice is all thats needed.

my 2 cents and thats my story im sticking to it..
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:31 PM
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Yep, good tone is good tone. Of course its good to hear a great player playin through some great gear!
  #16  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:47 PM
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I think we all agree...

You'd much rather listen to Vic Wooten playing my basses, than me playing Victor's

Unless you're insane, of course
  #17  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:53 PM
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I will agree to an extent.

But as we all know, rarely is something 100% true.

Fact: I can play Teen Town on my Musicman Stingray because it has lower action and a neck that fits my hand better.

Fact: I cannot play Teen Town on my MIM Fender P-bass, because the action is slightly higher and the string tension is different.

That song is at the very top of my ability level, and I can just right on my stingray, i don't play it with ease, but i play it on time with good rhythm and conviction. I am sloppy and slower on the P-bass.


90% talent, 10% equipment.
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  #18  
Old 08-21-2008, 07:57 PM
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Sounds like a golfer trying to buy a golf game. $1500 worth of clubs may carve a few strokes here and there as long as your confidence remains high about the clubs. But after that, you're left with your same old game that needs one thing, dedicated practice.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:58 PM
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  #20  
Old 08-21-2008, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locolobo85 View Post
Sounds like a golfer trying to buy a golf game. $1500 worth of clubs may carve a few strokes here and there as long as your confidence remains high about the clubs. But after that, you're left with your same old game that needs one thing, dedicated practice.
Very true. But as my previous post implies, sometimes the littlest change makes the biggest difference.


BUT, with that said...in the end, it's going to boil down to your overall skill and talent, not your gear.
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