Punk is Dead.

[xxfaux_punkxx]

I got into a debate with someone about the meaning of punk.

She said that punk was about rebellion and anarchy.

My view is that punk is less about rebellion and more about non-conformaty. That anarchy will not and can not exist because true anarchy is not going with out government but the lack of need for one.

She tells me that I have no right to talk about non-conformity because I wear the punk "Uniform" (reffereing to my leather jacket, blue hair, and piercings).

So in order for her statement to be true that means that in order be punk you have to rebel against society in the fact that you can't dress or act like society wants you too, but then you have to refuse the punk standard and wear a bussiness suite and join the "corporate machine" and break as many laws as you can.

And people wonder why I say punk is dead lol.


what are your thoughts?

[Deluge Of Sound]

I think that if you were really punk, you wouldn't be thinking about it.

[xxfaux_punkxx]

touche' but gotta read my name . xxfake_punkxx

[amosjones]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

I think that if you were really punk, you wouldn't be thinking about it.

+1

Punk is now the establishment.

[Worldeeeter]

Punk MUSIC is dead, as far as the movement goes. It was a movement that lasted during a specific time frame, then it was done. You can tell when it happened - the punk bands turned into metal bands. Just listen to the later Circle Jerks music.
Punk was a cool "thorn in the side" of the establishment in the 80's - lots of rage directed at authority, particularly Ronald Reagan, in the same way that the Sex Pistols directed rage at U.K. authority in the 70's (the queen).
If you are punk these days, you're basically sporting a look and enjoying the music. There's nothing wrong with that. I went to college in the 90s, and there were hippies everywhere. The hippie movement was also a limited-time engagement during the 60's and early 70's. That doesn't mean that people stop embracing the ideals.
I'm cool with people believing in something - at least SOME folks are thinking these days.
However, here's my one sticking point: if you listen to any of the new crap-pop bands that call themselves punk, and you think that it's punk, you just don't get it.

[spaz21387]

It seems to me with the punk scene theres way too many people trying to judge the other punks and find out if they are really "punk". My opinion is pretty much quit judging and only worry about your self... If you like punk rock good for you now shut up and go mosh. Also I wear this most of the time if it matters...

[JoshB]

Originally Posted by Worldeeeter

However, here's my one sticking point: if you listen to any of the new crap-pop bands that call themselves punk, and you think that it's punk, you just don't get it.

A BIG +1...

[R. Laevinus]

1. What are you not conforming to? Why?
2. If you don't intend to actually rebel in some way, why bother with nonconformity?
3. Anarchy is possible, however has been historically demonstrated to revert rather quickly to some form of government - usually direct democracy or some form of totalitarian control. Question: Why continue to aspire to a non-system that has been repeatedly historically demonstrated as non-viable?
4. Not conforming to mainstream ideals of fashion does not necessarily imply conformity to counterculture. If one wishes to truly not conform, one should consider the possibility of attiring oneself in such a way that bears no resemblance to any given culture or counterculture. She is not necessarily implying that one cannot not conform - she is complaining that non-conformity in the traditional punk manner has become a norm in and of itself.

[xxfaux_punkxx]

Originally Posted by Worldeeeter

Punk MUSIC is dead, as far as the movement goes. It was a movement that lasted during a specific time frame, then it was done. You can tell when it happened - the punk bands turned into metal bands. Just listen to the later Circle Jerks music.
Punk was a cool "thorn in the side" of the establishment in the 80's - lots of rage directed at authority, particularly Ronald Reagan, in the same way that the Sex Pistols directed rage at U.K. authority in the 70's (the queen).
If you are punk these days, you're basically sporting a look and enjoying the music. There's nothing wrong with that. I went to college in the 90s, and there were hippies everywhere. The hippie movement was also a limited-time engagement during the 60's and early 70's. That doesn't mean that people stop embracing the ideals.
I'm cool with people believing in something - at least SOME folks are thinking these days.
However, here's my one sticking point: if you listen to any of the new crap-pop bands that call themselves punk, and you think that it's punk, you just don't get it.

+1.




Personally I listen to the music. some new some old. Can't stand the casualties or the exploited. Love the sex pistols and Ramones. The original political movement and authority of it doesn't interest me at all and I just simply enjoy the style and the music. The non-conformity aspect is what I live my life by. Not so much as trying to rebel but just being yourself and enjoying what you like rather then what others tell you what you should like.

Originally Posted by R. Laevinus

1. What are you not conforming to? Why?
2. If you don't intend to actually rebel in some way, why bother with nonconformity?
3. Anarchy is possible, however has been historically demonstrated to revert rather quickly to some form of government - usually direct democracy or some form of totalitarian control. Question: Why continue to aspire to a non-system that has been repeatedly historically demonstrated as non-viable?
4. Not conforming to mainstream ideals of fashion does not necessarily imply conformity to counterculture. If one wishes to truly not conform, one should consider the possibility of attiring oneself in such a way that bears no resemblance to any given culture or counterculture. She is not necessarily implying that one cannot not conform - she is complaining that non-conformity in the traditional punk manner has become a norm in and of itself.

1 - societies standards. I don't like the idea that I have to look/act/believe a certain way to fit in.
2 - There's a difference between rebelling and being a non-conformist. Rebellion, you go out of your way to shake the establishment. Nonconformist, you do it naturally but don't intend to change the world in the process.
3 - I don't. Don't believe anarchy will ever work with a peacefull outcome and it will always end in dictatorship.
4 - I disagree. She was activly trying to be the stereotypical punk rocker in the fact that one must rebel in order to fit into the counterculture lifestyle. I will agree that nonconformity has become the norm in and of itself as far as punk rock goes and is why I believe that the true punk lifestyle is dead and gone.

[johnboy65]

Punk is not dead. But what people think of as punk isn't punk anymore.
When people think of punk now they think of a sound, and that was never punk in my mind.
fIREHOSE, fear, nofx, pennywise, x, bad brains, fugazi, Dead kennedys, misfits, propagandi, black flag...that stuff was punk because they were punks not because they subscribed to a cookie cutter musical/dress style. There were geniuses and morons shaping whatever they wanted out of music.

Green Day-No longer punk
Bad Religion-Still punk

if it helps at all...your spelling is punk as it gets

[OtterOnBass]

Here's a deep thought: If you create a label, like punk, you've taken something and categorized it, given it stereotypes and expectations. How can you live up to a standard that's against standards?

[handofseven]

Punk is not about the clothes you wear or the music you listen to.

For me, punk is about attitude. Punk is about fighting for what you believe in, regardless of what anyone else thinks. Punk is about doing it yourself and about never letting anything stand in your way. Punk is about never having to say you're sorry.

[s_mcsleazy]

ive had this argument so meny times that i gave up on being a die hard punk and just listend to the music insted

[Bloodhammer]

I should start a "Blackmetal is Dead" thread. How did we go from Mayhem to Cradle of Filth?

[JosephJavorsky]

In some sort of ironic twist it is now more punk to listen to anything but punk...
In actuality your friend is just as much a cookie cutter punk for believing in Anarchy.

To me punk is listening to whatever you want and doing whatever you want without having to have a reason for it.

[xxfaux_punkxx]

Originally Posted by JosephJavorsky

In some sort of ironic twist it is now more punk to listen to anything but punk...
In actuality your friend is just as much a cookie cutter punk for believing in Anarchy.

To me punk is listening to whatever you want and doing whatever you want without having to have a reason for it.

are you saying I'm a cookie cutter punk? lol

[Burlington]

Everyone knows that Blink182 is getting back together then real punk will be reborn. Duh.

[garmenteros]

Depends what you call punk really. The political movement or the music?

The music is alive and well (or in abundance). Bad Religion, Propagandhi, Anti-Flag are a few of the well known established bands that have clear ideals that still record and tour. And tons of other bands that have no connection to the ideals are a dime a dozen and are much more likely to catch the spotlight...

The political movement, although is not at the forefront like it was back in the day still exists. I have a lot of friends that play in bands who take part in community service and activism. In all parts of the world, you wouldn't believe. Check out just a few out of the top of my head...

Necesidad de Luchar: Spain
La Armada: Dominican Republic / Chicago
Los Perex: Dominican Republic
Area 12: Colombia
Tropiezo - Puerto Rico

These are all underground bands that have been around a while and have a strong following locally.

Punk (the political movement) will never die. It may go out of the limelight but as long as there is a group of people that are oppressed, their voices will get out one way or another in one form of music or the other.

[zachoff]

I think punk is funny. I find myself regressing with the genre. Used to be Fat Wreck/Epitaph was all I'd listen to 15 or so years ago & now I can barely stand those bands and that "sound". I think the last punk album I bought was Dead Boys. That and The Damned, I guess.

The popular punk music nowadays is too polished IMO & I like the older, raunchier sound. There are a few bands today still holding down that sound and I like em... New Bomb Turks, Pissed Jeans, Midnight Evils... I prefer punk that's not pretty & it seems like most of the newer bands are pretty.

[dj150888]

I still don't get whats so non-conformist about refusing to dress like one group of people and dressing like another group of people instead. :S

To quote the OP,

1 - societies standards. I don't like the idea that I have to look/act/believe a certain way to fit in.

This is a prime example of what I don't get....you ARE looking/acting in a certain way to fit in, you said it in your original post that you wear the "punk uniform"....what makes your uniform non-conformist and anyone elses uniform so conformist? The very word "uniform" implies conformity.


Regardless, punk isn't dead, its just gone back to where it belongs; the underground. Real music will always be there for those who care enough to find it. If you think the musics dead, you're not digging deep enough.