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  #1  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:20 PM
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Question For Sailors/Soldiers (Former And Current)

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Hey guys.

So, I was in the Navy for a good while, and I get the feeling that I know the answer from experience, but I can't find the written evidence I need, in the form of BUPERS or SECNAVINST publications.

So, here's the situation.

My wife is in the Navy, and trying to cross rate from AG (Weather) to LN (Paralegal). From when she first got stationed here to now, she's gotten stellar evals, MP, EP, etc.

Over time, her COC has changed, her former LPO and LCPO transferred, and she got a new chief, who was transferred from another division, and her new LPO followed her (her being the new chief).

This chief had a reputation and history of causing troubles and having her hands in the ruining of other female Sailors' careers. My wife was no exception. As soon as she joined my wife's division, she started causing problems, making arbitrary rules, and being just a general pain in the ass. For almost a year now, my wife comes home from work every day almost in tears from being miserable - some days are obviously better than others (and it's gotten less frequent with her cross rate coming at the end of the year), but some days I almost dread the hours it'll take to talk her back to calmness when she gets home.

About four months ago, her chief caused a stink with her and had her so bad off that she went and finally talked to her senior chief about it. He told my wife that if the chief arbitrarily decided to write her up for some nonsense again, to see him immediately. She spoke to him a number of times after that regarding her issues with the LPO and LCPO, and he was doing what he could to alleviate the issue.

Somehow the chief got wind of it, and told my wife that if she so much as spoke to the senior chief again at all, she was going to write her up. Not a counseling chit, but a full on write up. As a result, my wife stopped talking to the SCPO and the chief took to her pretty quick.

Now she got her eval, and it is SIGNIFICANTLY worse off than her previous evals. It's a huge drop, and will look terrible on her transfer package and will her her exam chances. The only thing she can do about it is speak to the LCPO's boss, either the SCPO or the CMC. But, she's afraid to, as the chief will write her up.

If I recall correctly, the Navy has a regulation allowing for a Sailor who is aggrieved by their immediate chain of command to speak to an enlisted leader who is immediately superior to that COC.

What I need is for some help locating the pub that outlines that so that we can correct the situation.

Anybody?
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  #2  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:49 PM
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I'm former US Air Force, but I know that they had specific policies for addressing personnel problems via the chain of command. In the Air Force we had Four choices;(1) go to the next person in the chain of command above the problem supervisor; (2) go to the First Sergeant of the unit;(3) go to the unit commander;(4) go to the Inspector Generals office (usually in that order). Many unit commanders had an open door policy that allowed personnel with severe problems to go directly to them. I would think your Base Personnel Office would be able to give you the regulations for the Navy or, where to go to get them. They probably can explain them as well.

One important point, the sooner this is addressed, the better. Waiting is the worst thing to do.

Good Luck!

Edit: My older brother was stationed at Pearl Harbor (Sub Base) for several years. He's told me more than one horror story about the place.
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  #3  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:59 PM
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That's a violation!

I was an NCO (sergeant) in the Army and have no Navy experience, but it's all DOD so it's pretty much the same. Her Chief CANNOT threaten her with retaliation for using the grievance process! That's a HUGE BIG no-no!! Obviously, what happened here is the chief's threat kept your wife from reporting it which gave the chief time to take revenge on her (in the form of a bad evaluation). What your wife should have done (and if I find a time machine, I'll loan it to you ) is that she should have immediately reported the threat. That would have put the leadership under obligation to separate the two of them either with a transfer or a temporary reassignment of one or the other or both of them until the issue is resolved.

What your wife needs to do now is IMMEDIATELY go to her chain of command above this chief and report the threat and show the unfavorable evaluation as evidence. Unfortunately because she did wait, it could be made to look like she is just a "disgruntled employee" trying to cry about it. That's a risk that she is just going to HAVE TO take. This chief has violated her Code of Conduct as a military leader and has gotten close to committing a crime under UCMJ. If she has made any SPECIFIC threats (e.g. "If you talk to anyone about this I'll [do whatever] to you" that's a crime). Of course, the burden of proof will be on your wife in a court martial. So, she needs to put this into the leadership's hands.

Listen, if she talked to leadership who were looking into this and the chief got angry about it, it's probably because they have had other complaints about her. There are things going on above your wife's head that she doesn't know about. For instance, why was this chief transfer into this unit and out of her other one? Was it an early transfer?
Also, when you're wife complains she needs to complain to the IG (Inspector General) or whatever the equivalent in the Navy is. She needs to notify her chain of command because if she goes around them, they'll take offense and she doesn't want that. However, if she feels that she's being harrassed by her leadership (i.e. her chief) then she has a right to report it to the IG. They are like the military's HR department (among other things). They have to investigate abuses of power, sexual harrassment, and things like that.

In an nutshell, what your wife needs to do is gather the personal courage (which is one of the values she is supposed to live as a sailor anyway) and get the light shining on this. The chief wants to keep her "evil deeds" in the dark. NO WAY! Your wife needs to get her chain of command notified and involved and she needs to say that she wants to talk to the IG officer. She is also ALWAYS welcome to speak to a Chaplain. While the chaplain is not in her chain of command and is not part of the IG, the chaplain IS an officer. As such, he is required to listen and to take these things seriously. He may be a very valuable resource for helping her notify the proper authorities about this.

Hey, one other thing. When your wife reported this issue to begin with, her confidence was broken because the leadership had to address the issue with the chief. That might be how she heard about it. That's another risk that your wife has to assume for now. Talking to a chaplain is pretty much ALWAYS kept in confidence. Talking to the IG is pretty much always in confidence also.

If there's one thing I saw as a sergeant it's this: Once you start complaining in the military, you CAN'T stop until the issue is resolved! If you do (as your wife did), the "bad guy" is surely going to come kick your @#%!. You have to keep the momentum of your complaint up throughout the entire process until the issue is resolved! Think of it like trying to bail water out of a mud hole. If you stop bailing, the water IS going to come back in and fill the hole! You gotta keep it going until it's settled.

As a member of the military, your wife has the RIGHT to speak to the IG officer and a chaplain anytime she feels the need. They cannot deny her that right.

If your wife got a bad eval out of this, the least she can do is return the favor to the chief!

Dammit! That REALLY burns my shorts! Some of us worked very, very hard to be trustworthy, strong leaders! Then we have these a-hole hacks with the stripes kicking everyone around! And the gov't wonders why no one wants to enlist.
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Last edited by totallyfrozen : 06-18-2009 at 12:53 AM. Reason: spelling
  #4  
Old 06-18-2009, 12:14 AM
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I appreciate it guys, I understood the grievance process the same way.

Thing is, I would rather have the hardcopy firepower to back her up. I was also a Sailor at one time (Islander, I was at Kunia, PH SUBBASE is nothing compared to the horrors of that place), and I have also had to deal with things like this before too. I was actually one of the reasons why NAVREGHI IG ended up making an unscheduled visit to NIOC.

Soooo, if we have any other Sailors (current or former) who have any sort of experience with the pub system, it would help. Hell, even if it's DODINST that'll work too.
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  #5  
Old 06-18-2009, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Bones View Post
I appreciate it guys, I understood the grievance process the same way.

Thing is, I would rather have the hardcopy firepower to back her up. I was also a Sailor at one time (Islander, I was at Kunia, PH SUBBASE is nothing compared to the horrors of that place), and I have also had to deal with things like this before too. I was actually one of the reasons why NAVREGHI IG ended up making an unscheduled visit to NIOC.

Soooo, if we have any other Sailors (current or former) who have any sort of experience with the pub system, it would help. Hell, even if it's DODINST that'll work too.
I don't think you need hard copy evidence to back up the chain of command. Everybody knows it from the moment you step into basic training. If one has an issue, go to your immediate 'supervisor'. If it's not resolved, you take it one step higher and so on until it is resolved.
The one thing your wife does need is personal documentation of every issue and dealing with this superior of hers including her past performance evaluations so it shows a pattern of behavior.
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  #6  
Old 06-18-2009, 08:44 AM
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