Rage Against the Scene

[Matt Till]

OK, this has been bugging me for a while. Why is it, when something from your music scene enters the mainstream, you feel the urge to rebel against it? (You of course not meaning you... uhh, yeah)

Wolfmother is a good example. They easily fall under the "stoner rock" umbrella. Stoner rock essentially being a kickback to the fuzzed out riffs of Sabbath/Blue Cheer. But the stoner rock scene shows them no support... same goes for Fireball Ministry. It's like when a band leaves the nest, it can never come back.

Queens of the Stoneage maintained an underground following. They hit it big, now they are "watered down." No One Knows sounds like it could have been off Rated R to me. ESPECIALLY Probot. Probot brought classic stoner/doom/metal musicians together that hadn't done a song in years, the underground click ignored it because Dave Grohl was running the show. (When he was underground, he was in hardcore bands, pre Nirvana).

This is true of so many "scenes," Black Metal of course being worst... have more than 2 fans? Guess what, you're no longer kvlt. But I see this constantly in punk/hardcore too. Hell, I even know a bunch of kids who saw Linkin Park before they hit it big, bought their CD, listened to it constantly... they hit it big... they were no longer cool.

You can blame overexposure... turn off the radio. You can blame people talking about it all the time... at least you have something in common.

I say, when someone or some band from your scene enters the mainstream, don't instantly accuse them of selling out. I say support them. They may not be the best of the genre, but they give a chance for more bands like them to gain attention. So there might be a few times that people have told my band (King Bowman) that we sound like Early Man, and now someone might say we sound like Wolfmother... but I consider that a good sign being related to mainstream artists... because people like them.

Mainstream doesn't equal sellout.

Metallica did sell out though... damn did they sell out.

[poor_gear_whore]

+1000

This is probably one of the most annoying things about a music scene. "The mob is rome" so to speak. Omaha is pretty bad about that expecially with heavy music. One of the local bands Cellador is regularly called sellouts. But they are some of the most down to earth guys I have meet.

[MikeBass]

In Detroit here it's kinda the opposite.
Kid Rock and the White Stripes were almost a joke. Once they hit it, EVERYONE loved them and knows them.
Radio stations who wouldn't even let them take out their trash are lining up to get them on the air.

But I do understand your point Matt, work your ass off to get that "big break" and all of a sudden your local fan base turns on you.

[Matt Till]

I don't forsee my band getting a "big break" anytime soon. We could do alright if we applied ourselves more, but we're all pretty busy. But to have the people who got you where you are all of a sudden turn on you, no matter how true to you roots you are.

Though I'm more of a psych/prog fan, I guess I'm part of the stoner/doom scene. So when I see a band within my genre(s) gain any respect, it's pretty awesome to me at least.

[baba]

Because there are people out there who feel some sense of superiority when they embrace non-mainstream bands. They feel like they are part of something exclusive that the masses are not worthy of. It's a music snob kind of thing. It probably stems from insecurity.

Once the band tastes mainstream success, these alleged fans turn on them. I watched it happen in Berkeley when Greenday's first album went big. It's really quite sad and pathetic.

[darkfish01]

AFI anyone?

as soon as they hit it big a few years back, people started abandoning them.

[wolfs]

Scenesters are very territorial, musicians very protective of their artistic freedom... it's too bad, because I don't think it's any one side of the equation's fault, per se. When I went to college, there was a big record store clerk-in-training/running an indie label out of my living room clique that was very standoff-ish (I think they hated me, but it's hard to tell with such sunny individuals). They always rubbed me the wrong way when we'd be at the same shows, bitch about how this band or that band's second record failed to live up to the promise of the first...

At the same time, these are the people who spend a lot of time on the ground floor finding out about new bands, coming to shows that no one else will go to, getting excited about a band's first single, etc. At some point they identify with the band members and the band entity... but once a band gets out there a bit, snap goes the umbilical cord. They can only appreciate a band that has made it big if they do so ironically... I hate liking music ironically...

Anywho, some bands don't help it out either by alienating their fanbase... but that may be understandable, too, since you can't give into the demands of a small group of people at the expense of your band's vision.

Oh well, those are my (disorganized) thoughts.

[dlloyd]

It's all to do with being unpopular and lonely. Unpopular, lonely kids like unpopular, lonely bands that sing about being unpopular and lonely. They feel a sense of belonging, that they have something in common with them... being unpopular and lonely. When unpopular, lonely bands have hits, the commonality is breached.

[Fo' Shizzle]

It's the whole "Keepin' it real" syndrome.

How can you possibly know how me and the homies are livin' when you're gettin' paid?

[superbassman2000]

Originally Posted by dlloyd

It's all to do with being unpopular and lonely. Unpopular, lonely kids like unpopular, lonely bands that sing about being unpopular and lonely. They feel a sense of belonging, that they have something in common with them... being unpopular and lonely. When unpopular, lonely bands have hits, the commonality is breached.

+1
thats my guess...

i would also guess that when you are playing to crowds in NY, the fans that supported you in florida probably feel abandoned...so what do they do? they hate you...what great fans eh?

[SuperDuck]

Originally Posted by darkfish01

AFI anyone?

as soon as they hit it big a few years back, people started abandoning them.

It's true, but in their case there were at least enough stylistic changes in their music that I can almost understand their case. Personally, I like all of the old and new music.


I'm always happy when a band I enjoy makes it big. Then I know that they can entertain me and perhaps get their bills paid, too. I won't begrudge someone for that.

[Kelly Lee]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

I'm always happy when a band I enjoy makes it big. Then I know that they can entertain me and perhaps get their bills paid, too. I won't begrudge someone for that.

Me too.

I really can't stand the scenesters. If I like a band when they are underground and they hit it big, I'm happy for them.

[dain bramage]

Originally Posted by baba

Because there are people out there who feel some sense of superiority when they embrace non-mainstream bands. They feel like they are part of something exclusive that the masses are not worthy of. It's a music snob kind of thing. It probably stems from insecurity.

Once the band tastes mainstream success, these alleged fans turn on them. I watched it happen in Berkeley when Greenday's first album went big. It's really quite sad and pathetic.

Green Day didn't have any mainstream success until their 3rd album, Dookie.

[baba]

Originally Posted by dain bramage

Green Day didn't have any mainstream success until their 3rd album, Dookie.

Yes, I phrased it wrong. I meant their first album to go big. You get the picture.

[PurplePurple]

Originally Posted by dain bramage

Green Day didn't have any mainstream success until their 3rd album, Dookie.

But they where HATED by the local sceen before then, after that they where embraced.


I think...


/never liked greenday


Edit: I may be really really off.

[SuperDuck]

Originally Posted by PurplePurple

But they where HATED by the local sceen before then, after that they where embraced.


I think...


/never liked greenday

In terms of the local scene they were from, I believe it was just the opposite. They were huge in the small clubs they used to play at, but once they made it big with their first album they were shunned hardcore. I saw on Behind the Music that Billie Joe was somewhat upset after going into the men's room of a club they played at regularly back in the day and found "Billie Joe Must Die" written on the walls. To the die-hard California punk scene they came from, they were the epitome of a sell out band.

[baba]

Originally Posted by PurplePurple

But they where HATED by the local sceen before then, after that they where embraced.


I think...


/never liked greenday


Edit: I may be really really off.

Yeah, you are off. I was never a Greenday fan either, but I remember they were the darlings at 924 Gilman until Dookie, and then people got really nasty. Nasty enough that there were articles about it in the SF papers. The typical sell-out whining, even specific threats towards the band if I remember correctly.

[slap_happy]

This is really true for the most part, but a lot of bands really do change after being part of the mainstream. There's been a lot of talk about Green Day. I only knew of them after they got big but I think the first 2 big albums, Dookie and Insomniac, and a sort of Nimrod, the 3rd, are really good albums. Dookie is up there on my top 5 list definetely, and that's not even my kind of music. That being said though, they've totally sold out now. They're playing this rebellious, political card wearing lots of makeup, studded belts - this new video where the guy goes to Iraq. ***, is all I have to say. Emo kids don't join the army. They've totally given up on songs about Teenage ankst and masterbating, which is really what made them so great, because that's just not in. I want to make it clear that my opinion is not a case of "Rage Against the Scene," as I like their albums after they hit it big much more than they're stuff before they did, like Kerplunk, although 2000 light years away is a great song too. I think a large part is that they got old and out of style and selling out is the only way they have to get back into the scene, and hey, it worked. Another reason that I hate them so much now is that after changing their image, people love them again. This is a case of "Rage Against the Scene," but you have to admit that it's totally understandable.
Incubus is another example, giving up the whole metal funk thing for this serenading one minute/screaming the next s**t. but I don't want to go on another rant.

[Kosko]

Besides the title track, American Idiot, IMO, is one of the greatest albums released recently.

Panic! At the Disco, Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance: their recently released albums are all actually very good. I could lose all cred (which I don't really have) and catch a lot of flak for saying something like that. But, each song on each of those albums is dynamic, catchy and fun. Is there something wrong with that? Is it wrong to have a melody stuck in your head after a first listen?

I don't think so.

[poor_gear_whore]

Originally Posted by KoskoArts

Besides the title track, American Idiot, IMO, is one of the greatest albums released recently.

Panic! At the Disco, Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance: their recently released albums are all actually very good. I could lose all cred (which I don't really have) and catch a lot of flak for saying something like that. But, each song on each of those albums is dynamic, catchy and fun. Is there something wrong with that? Is it wrong to have a melody stuck in your head after a first listen?

I don't think so.

Yes there is!! All scene points deducted!