SAM ASH bad experience

[TattooBass]

So I was in Brooklyn NYs sam ash store. I was looking through the bass section. I raised my eyebrows at some of the prices and condition of the basses. They had a Fender Aerodyne bass with a big chunk taken out of it and a few other dings selling for $769.00. I asked if this was a new bass and he said no. It has shipping damages. I was like ok, why are you still selling it for full price? No reply..... there were several other basses in there like that.

Second Time I was in Raleigh NCs Sam Ash store. They had a used bass I wanted, Warwick Thumb NT. Price was nice. So I figured id trade some gear in on it. So I took, a 2 week old Musicman Stingray 4, a new Epiphone T-bird Pro, and my old Epi Blackbird bass in.
Not Only was I insulted by what they offered for trade in value. But the manager was a complete A$%hole.
They offered me :

Musicman Stingray (Not a sterling line or OLP) - $300

Epi T-bird pro with case - $150

Epi Blackbird with case - $100

and I was Laughed and said are you serious? and grab my basses and walked out.

So then I go back in to the store to talk $$$ for the warwick. Got the sales associate to come down on the price. and just bought the warwick straight out.

Sam Ash is definetley on my Do Not shop there anymore list. Ill stick to my mom and pop music stores.

Anybody else have an experience like that with them?

[Box365]

I haven't purchased from them in years. But as a new bassist at the time looking to find the right gear and looking for some direction. I went to thier NYC mid-town store and left with the impression that I was bothering them/ I guess they prefer dealing with stright up pro players. In anycase they ended up opening the big Guitar Center on 14th street in NYC which was more convenient for me, and the staff is much friendly and inviting.

[Febs]

What do you think would have been an appropriate trade-in value for those basses?

Actually, let me ask you another question: realistically, how much would you have paid at Sam Ash for a used Epi T-Bird Pro or Blackbird?

[LaklandBass]

Yea Ive noticed that Sam Ash tends to beat GC in the "your gear is trashed" category. Dont write off the company though as a whole. Ive come to learn that every store will have D-bags as well as that one dude that is awesome and a huge help. Also I have a theory that any instrument on the wall of a store is a "used" or "demo" instrument and I would never pay full price for that. I worked at a GC... accidents happen with any store and they certainly have their share of instruments falling over. So if you want a brand new bass have them pull one out of the stock room or order one up for you.

Also as far as your trade in offers go..... I know that they offered you a low amount for the ray but you must realize that they have a business to run. If they would have bought your stingray they would have to make a profit on it. Realize that they pay a large amount for rent and that bass would take up a spot on their wall that they couldve put a different instrument in. They'll also have to insure the instrument while its there and accept that there is a theft risk involved which is why they have an employee at the front door all day (usually)..... in addition they need to accomodate for what somebody will pay as well as them paying out a commission to the employee that will sell the bass as well as the employee that will buy the bass in.
So lets say that somebody would be willing to pay $700 for that used ray... if you account for tax this means that theyll list the bass at about $660. So thats $330 more than they paid you.
But now lets think about the $25 commission to the salesman and maybe $15 to the guy that bought it in and youre down to $290. That $290 has to pay for insurance on the bass as well as account for other costs like the floor space it took up for maybe 3 months and a tiny portion (very tiny)to accomodate the door chicks that worked open to close for all 3 of those months. So to be realistic they would probably profit $250 on that bass if it never gets dropped or stolen or anything like that.
Or they could put a brand new $500 ibanez sdgr in that slot and make $150 profit on it...... and they'll sell one every 3 weeks.
I understand that $300 was a ripoff to offer you but thats about right for what they need to offer you and still be a business.
Or you could go to ebay and get the $700 yourself lol...... thats what I do.

[dannylectro]

Never expect more than half the retail value on any trade-in. In fact, you should expect around 40% unless you're trading in an extremely desirable bass that will sell relatively quickly.

[superbassman2000]

how much were you expecting in trade for your gear? they will generally take the value of what they can sell it at, and offer you somewhere between half and slightly less than half of that, depending on their margins. Most places will do that. I think if you told him how much you deserve for your gear, he'd laugh you right out of the store. Guitar stores, like grocery stores, taco bells, Walmart, or your local gas station do what they do because they want money, plain and simple. Even your local mom and pop guitar shop. They don't take in basses for the charity and goodwill of it all.

As for damaged gear for sale, they have a right to ask whatever they want. If they don't want to go down on their prices, that's their business...it won't sell, but they can ask whatever they want. Mom and Pop guitar stores will be more willing to drop their prices because they make much less money. It's sad to see it come down to that because mom and pop shops get screwed that way and they can never compete with guitar center as far as inventory goes, because people aren't willing to pay asking price for their things and know they can take advantage of them better.

[Tampabass]

The general rule of thumb is: You lose your shirt with trade-ins.

[Bardley]

GC/Sam Ash should offer you a free bottle of lube when you trade in gear with them. Sell it yourself and get what you want out of it, then buy what you want. It's a bit more work, but you greatly reduce your chances of getting screwed.

[TimK]

Bingo!

This reminds me of that scene in the Jerk with Steve Martin, where he is working at the carnival at the "guess your weight" booth and suddenly realizes that "It's a profit deal!"

-step right up and win some crap!

Sorry to derail, But LaklandBass in exactly right. well put.

Originally Posted by LaklandBass

Also as far as your trade in offers go..... I know that they offered you a low amount for the ray but you must realize that they have a business to run. If they would have bought your stingray they would have to make a profit on it. Realize that they pay a large amount for rent and that bass would take up a spot on their wall that they couldve put a different instrument in. They'll also have to insure the instrument while its there and accept that there is a theft risk involved which is why they have an employee at the front door all day (usually)..... in addition they need to accomodate for what somebody will pay as well as them paying out a commission to the employee that will sell the bass as well as the employee that will buy the bass in.
So lets say that somebody would be willing to pay $700 for that used ray... if you account for tax this means that theyll list the bass at about $660. So thats $330 more than they paid you.
But now lets think about the $25 commission to the salesman and maybe $15 to the guy that bought it in and youre down to $290. That $290 has to pay for insurance on the bass as well as account for other costs like the floor space it took up for maybe 3 months and a tiny portion (very tiny)to accomodate the door chicks that worked open to close for all 3 of those months. So to be realistic they would probably profit $250 on that bass if it never gets dropped or stolen or anything like that.
Or they could put a brand new $500 ibanez sdgr in that slot and make $150 profit on it...... and they'll sell one every 3 weeks.
I understand that $300 was a ripoff to offer you but thats about right for what they need to offer you and still be a business.
Or you could go to ebay and get the $700 yourself lol...... thats what I do.

[JoZac21]

Originally Posted by TattooBass

So I was in Brooklyn NYs sam ash store.

The one by Kings Plaza? People still go there? If you wanted a big music shop in brooklyn, why didn't you go the the Guitar Center on Atlantic? It's actually not bad... for a GC.

[odin70]

Originally Posted by Box365

In anycase they ended up opening the big Guitar Center on 14th street in NYC which was more convenient for me, and the staff is much friendly and inviting.

I was there last month, and i would not call the man working in the bass department friendly at all. Sam Ash on 48th was much better. But of course Vintage guitars is the best and most interesting shop in NYC (but they are not friendly..)

[Sheldon681]

Originally Posted by TattooBass

So then I go back in to the store to talk $$$ for the warwick. Got the sales associate to come down on the price. and just bought the warwick straight out.

Sounds like it's safer to say that Sam Ash on your Do Not Shop There Anymore list... unless you're happy with the price. Sounds like a policy that should be applied at all times, at all stores.

[JoZac21]

Originally Posted by odin70

I was there last month, and i would not call the man working in the bass department friendly at all. Sam Ash on 48th was much better. But of course Vintage guitars is the best and most interesting shop in NYC (but they are not friendly..)

The Sam Ash on 48th is the only SA I'll go to anymore. They're the only Sadowsky dealer easy to get to from me (it's where I got mine), they have a huge selection of Hartke amps, and I'm a fan of those... and best of all, Larry Hartke hangs out there 3 days a week! So if you have any amp questions, the man himself is there to answer them. Rudy's Music is awesome too, and I also recommend Matt Uminov Guitars.

[Lazarus.Bird]

1. You can't really judge a national chain by your experiences in two stores.
2. Most of the employees at a place like that are <20 years old and not making much money, so don't expect them to care much about you.
3. You will always be better off selling your gear yourself and using the cash to buy something from a store like this.

My only experience with Sam Ash is when I went inside one in Orlando when I was travelling on business. If I'm on the road for 3+ days I usually do this to get my bass fix. One of the employees came up to me and asked if I needed help with anything. I asked him about a Tune brand bass there (I had never heard of them before) and he proceeded to feed me all sorts of information about the company and the bass. Good experience there.

A good guideline for guitar stores is go to the corporate chains (GC, Sam Ash) if you want to try out a bunch of guitars. Go to a locally owned store if you have something specific you are interested in. Locally owned stores usually prefer you ask them before trying anything, as it helps them keep their stock in better shape. They will also usually wiggle on the price with you.

ALWAYS expect to be "raped" on trade ins. The reseller has to make money off of your item, too. Especially with the economy in the state it is in, places will be hesitant to just hand you cash for your old gear. They have to keep their profit margin in mind. What they WILL do, however, is maybe wiggle down on the price of something you're interested in at the same time, essentially "giving" you more for your trade in. There are many facets of business, but in the end it all comes down to the $$

Oh yeah, previous post to mine reminded me of this as well. The Sam Ash I was in carrier more Hartke products than Fender and Ampeg combined. Keep doing your thing, Larry!!

[bunkaroo]

GC/Sam Ash: good for accessories or non-instrument gear in a pinch. Otherwise, online all the way.

[Yerf Dog]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

GC/Sam Ash: good for accessories or non-instrument gear in a pinch. Otherwise, online all the way.

[MatticusMania]

Originally Posted by TattooBass

Sam Ash is definetley on my Do Not shop there anymore list. Ill stick to my mom and pop music stores.

Anybody else have an experience like that with them?

Buy you still gave them your business? Do you really think a Mom & Pop shop is going to do you any better on a trade in. Figure the store still needs to make a profit on anything you trade in. The most you'll get in a trade in is probably 1/3 what you could get selling an item on CL or eBay. Now think about the smaller profit margins a M&P has to cover for... you'd probably get much less on a trade in there.

[TattooBass]

So let me give you a little background on me. Ive been playing bass for 16yrs. Ive toured, recorded, and had record deals with major labels as well as indie labels. Ive been dealing with trade ins and used gear for as long as I have been playing bass. Ive prob. owned well over 300 basses in that time. So Im quite familar with how a trade in works. The general rule of thumb is 50% of retail on trades on normal gear. But most stores ive dealt with do 60% on made in USA and top end type gear.
Mom and pops type store Ive usually dealt with HAVE given me more on trade and are easier to work with on price.
Specifically, I deal with Atomic Music in Beltsville MD for most of my gear. Eric and Luis are locals guy who opened that shop and Ive been dealing with them since 96-97. As well as a few of the crew guys theyve had with them for that long.

What would I expect for trade in on the Stingray? Prob. somewhere around 700-800. which I what i usually get when I trade in a stingray. Ive owned prob atleast 10-12 of them.

As far as the Epi basses. atleast 150-200 on the blackbird. and 250-300 on the tbird pro. Both basses are Like new and in Brandnew cases.

So I dont want to confuse anybody, and making them think im some newbie going into GC or SA stores and this was a first time think.

I own a lot of gear, and have dealt with a whole bunch of music stores in my day.

[TattooBass]

And yes I still gave them my business. Bc they had a 92 Warwick thumb Neck thru for $1400. Only reason..... Wanted another thumb, but for that price on ebay i could of bought a bolt on version.

[Bassdirty]

Originally Posted by Tampabass

The general rule of thumb is: You lose your shirt with trade-ins.

+Infinity