Sanity check on guitar tone

Skel · #1 10-11-2007, 10:00 AM

I'm playing blues for a while I guess. Therefore, I have been really struggling to decide what sound I want. I decided on going with a stock Strat straight into a Fender Prosonic, whiich is an all tube 2x10 combo like a Vibrolux - 2 6L6's. On this amp I would use the clean channel and push the reverb up almost a little too much and the result is a Fender'y clean, bright, hint of twang. Nothing to hide behind except the reverb so if it's good it's very good, if it's bad, it's pretty bad. I think it's a pretty good way to establish your own unique, identifiable playing style too - it will all be in the fingers.

I'm getting to the point where I just can't handle a "processed" guitar tone anymore. Even distortion is getting "not so great".

Can anybody relate?

superbassman2000 · #2 10-11-2007, 10:25 AM

i can relate only with tube amps

When i got my Gibson Scout combo amp, I plugged in a jazzmaster and fell in love with the tone--i wanted to try some effects, but I just couldn't bring myself to do it--i still can't put effects on it...however with solid state it doesn't really matter to me

Skel · #3 10-11-2007, 11:50 AM

I already changed my mind. Same amp but a stock Les Paul with pickup switch in the middle (both pickups) straight in. Less passe or sickeningly common. (I know, the Les Paul isn't exactly a "new" idea).

69nites · #4 10-11-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skel

I already changed my mind. Same amp but a stock Les Paul with pickup switch in the middle (both pickups) straight in. Less passe or sickeningly common. (I know, the Les Paul isn't exactly a "new" idea).

Stock Les Paul tone is a little more fitting for the blues.

you'll like that tone. Hell I use that tone.

you want to get real old school start playing accoustic blues.

Disc · #5 10-11-2007, 03:27 PM

I agree about the processed sound. Ceack out the gitarist D. Boon of the Minutemen, he uses a completely clean amp but pushes the tremble way overboard creativng a twangy bright sound that I think would really stand out in a blues band. Les Paul is overdone and too dark sounding in my opinion.

Skel · #6 10-11-2007, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Disc

I agree about the processed sound. Ceack out the gitarist D. Boon of the Minutemen, he uses a completely clean amp but pushes the tremble way overboard creativng a twangy bright sound that I think would really stand out in a blues band. Les Paul is overdone and too dark sounding in my opinion.

You have a really good point about the Les Paul's darkness, and I *think* I know what you mean about the "overdone" part. Ok maybe a Tele. I've never really owned one.

Thanks.

The Golden Boy · #7 10-11-2007, 07:20 PM

More in the "rock" thing- for years I've been in the process of backing off the preamp level on my amps. When I was all punk rock kid and stuff, nothing sounded better than that old Peavey Backstage Plus with the "distortion" knob dimed. When I got to be a bigger kid, it was about the pre on the Marshall dimed. Now I'm all old and stuff, I've got the pre backed off to somwhere between 2:00 and 4:00 and it only gets dimed from time to time. There's something about letting your tone breathe through the overdrive. It's still "rock" but it's a "defined" rock sound.

I can't play clean. I hear people that can make it sound awesome- it just doesn't work for me like that. And I'm pretty much the Les Paul into the Marshall type of guy. I do have a Telecaster, but it sounds more like a Telecaster crossed with a LP Jr.

Skel · #8 10-11-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

More in the "rock" thing- for years I've been in the process of backing off the preamp level on my amps. When I was all punk rock kid and stuff, nothing sounded better than that old Peavey Backstage Plus with the "distortion" knob dimed. When I got to be a bigger kid, it was about the pre on the Marshall dimed. Now I'm all old and stuff, I've got the pre backed off to somwhere between 2:00 and 4:00 and it only gets dimed from time to time. There's something about letting your tone breathe through the overdrive. It's still "rock" but it's a "defined" rock sound.

I can't play clean. I hear people that can make it sound awesome- it just doesn't work for me like that. And I'm pretty much the Les Paul into the Marshall type of guy. I do have a Telecaster, but it sounds more like a Telecaster crossed with a LP Jr.

Man, can I ever relate! It always sounds great as long as it's somebody else and not me playing clean. I've been using the pre dimed on the Marshall - gonna back it off like you said and see. But really it's so loud that the master's on below 1, but this isn't gigging volume, it's house volume. And I hate power attenuators in case you were thinking that route, even though nothing is as good as the power tubes compressing and distorting IMHO.

I remember seeing Eric Johnson. Honestly after a while, he's just TOO good and it gets boring, where you can no longer even relate. Then he switched and plugged into a Vibrolux or Twin for 4 or 5 songs, and I just melted - the chord type soloing and that Fender shimmering tone with his only "Fender" amp effect, a delay used tastefully.

The Golden Boy · #9 10-11-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skel

Man, can I ever relate! It always sounds great as long as it's somebody else and not me playing clean. I've been using the pre dimed on the Marshall - gonna back it off like you said and see. But really it's so loud that the master's on below 1, but this isn't gigging volume, it's house volume.

Have you tried out a treble bleed cap yet? Google that, IIRC, I'm using .002 microfahrad. If you want me to post pix, let me know early tomorrow.

I don't know what you're using for your amp- I've been running a 78 50w or an 81 Park 50w- both MV amps. I know there's been some work done to the Park, but the Marshall is pretty much electrically stock.

The Marshall can be backed off to 8 (around 4:00) and be nasty when you punch it, but still clean up nicely- the Park gets the same effect around 6 (around 1:30/2:00). I usually have the master around 2.5 (9/10:00) for gig volume. Of course you're losing a lot of your dynamics by only running the master at that volume- especially thru a 4x12. The give and take between pushing your power section and running a 4x12.... You know... That's why you really have to play with it a lot to get enough gain to sound decent, enough room to not come out sounding squashed, enough power to give you bottom- but still not be overbearing on stage volume.

Skel · #10 10-11-2007, 10:06 PM

Thanks for the cap info - I'll save this. I'm using about the same, a '79 50 watt w/basketweave 4x12. I had it completely gone through by Gerald Weber (Kendrick Amplification) in Austin. TX. He's one of the word's formost Marshall gurus. btw, mine was converted to EL34 power tubes. You *should* be using 6550's in your Marshall if it was for export to USA. I doubt the Park was so it probably has EL34's.

I'm going crazy, but I'm starting to like the strat into the Marshall. I just want to sound like Billy Gibbons...is that so wrong?

The Golden Boy · #11 10-11-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skel

Thanks for the cap info - I'll save this. I'm using about the same, a '79 50 watt w/basketweave 4x12. I had it completely gone through by Gerald Weber (Kendrick Amplification) in Austin. TX. He's one of the word's formost Marshall gurus. btw, mine was converted to EL34 power tubes. You *should* be using 6550's in your Marshall if it was for export to USA. I doubt the Park was so it probably has EL34's.

I'm going crazy, but I'm starting to like the strat into the Marshall. I just want to sound like Billy Gibbons...is that so wrong?

Everybody and their mom (including my brother in law- who's a hella amp tech in his own right {although I'd love to have my amps cleaned up by Gerald Weber!}) keeps telling me I *need* to change my Marshall over to EL-34s. But I love it as is. No way I'm changing that sucker.

Most of the Billy Gibbons stuff is LP->Marshall anyway- despite what all the 80s videos say...

Dig the blue Tesla EL-34s....

I don't know the whole thing behind Park at this time. I do know that it's one of the very last English made Parks- but I don't know what they had as far as the difference between US/Europe amps (ie whether Park used 6550s).

There was a Park Rockhead on Ebay a little while ago. While I don't exactly think that would be the head for me- it really was the first production, cascading preamp, high gain head- evAr.

The Golden Boy · #12 10-11-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skel

I'm going crazy, but I'm starting to like the strat into the Marshall. I just want to sound like Billy Gibbons...is that so wrong?

It's all about the LP -> Marshall

Skel · #13 10-11-2007, 10:59 PM

I guess the best tone I've ever really heard was a Les Paul through a Marshall. Gotta keep messing with this. Thanks - the pics were great.

Skel · #14 10-11-2007, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

Everybody and their mom (including my brother in law- who's a hella amp tech in his own right {although I'd love to have my amps cleaned up by Gerald Weber!}) keeps telling me I *need* to change my Marshall over to EL-34s. But I love it as is. No way I'm changing that sucker.

Yea, if it's getting the tone for you, I wouldn't let anybody touch it. I know Blackmore used 6550's and I think Hendrix did as well. I saw Eddie Van Halen using about a '78 or '79 like ours, so he may have been using 6550's as well. I actually spoke with Alex Lifeson (Rush). I could tell he barely knew his amps even had tubes, much less what they were. He was using Hughs & Kettner Triamps. (with EL34's)