Screw it, I can't play...

AEONmw · #1 01-17-2010, 12:23 PM

...Help !

I really hate my sound ! I've always practiced with a low level, but whenever I get into a Jam situation that requires loud volume, I absolutely hate my sound. My bass/rig simply become unplayable. I quit a band recently simply because I hate how I sound.

I'm an average skill level, but there's a huge disconnect between quiet levels and loud that I find completely disorienting. At low levels, I get that sort of smooth Pattitucci sound. Once I get any volume, the whole frikk'n sound falls apart.

How do you emulated that Pattitucci sound. Any speculation as to what sort of signal/effect chain one would need to get that similar sound ?

snyderz · #2 01-17-2010, 12:31 PM

What's your bass/What's your rig?

J. Crawford · #3 01-17-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snyderz

What's your bass/What's your rig?

Yeah, we need to know.

VincentGrim · #4 01-17-2010, 12:57 PM

I don't know how you would emulate his sound, but unless your gear is truly horrid I can't imagine being completely unable to find a playable tone...I certainly can't capture "my sound" on every rig, but I've yet to play something that I could not find a nice clean/smooth bass tone on which, unless you're playing super grungy stoner/doom metal ((which I doubt you are, given the tone you want to emulate)), should get you through practices/local shows until you can afford the gear that will get you the tone you're looking for...Sooo, I guess if you hate your bass tones soooo much, to the point where you are quitting bands over it, maybe bass just isn't for you?

AEONmw · #5 01-17-2010, 01:09 PM

Bass: Ken Smith Burner 5-string (low E to Hi -C)
Amp Head: Ashdown MK500
Cabinet: Accugroove El Whappo (1-15", 1-12", 1-6", 2-tweeters)
Effects: none

any comments/suggestions are appreciated..
Thx

waleross · #6 01-17-2010, 01:44 PM

.. The other Forum members are right again. You can always find the happy medium on any rig, no matter what. Same goes with the bass. "Let me know if you can hear the bass"................

Deathblade Eric · #7 01-17-2010, 03:41 PM

Total guess here, are you keeping the same EQ setting when you crank it up?

If so, I'd guess that the cab is responding differenly when it's driven hard & you'll need to EQ accordingly. Any chance of a photo of the graphic settings that give you the Pattituci tone?

Pete.

TrevorOfDoom · #8 01-17-2010, 03:47 PM

best advice: start with everything set flat, and go from there. at volume. y'see, physics is an odd thing. the louder the volume, the more high and low frequencies jump out at us. so when you practice at low volume, physics is doing something it can't do at high volumes.
set everything flat on the bass and the amp.
you have high quality gear, you should be able to get a high quality sound.
any idea you could describe the sound you want to get, and the sound you're currently getting? at volume, mind you. the information will do us no good if it's not formed while at playing volume.

TrevorOfDoom · #9 01-17-2010, 03:50 PM

also, to continue my rant, it should be noted that what sounds good by itself (you playing alone in your bedroom, no matter what volume) rarely sounds good in a band mix; inversely, what sounds good in a band mix rarely sounds good by itself.
and the sound you hear in a band mix while 2 feet away from your amp is not what you sound like 5 feet away, and that sounds different 10 feet away.
dispersion is related to distance. what sounds killer up close can sound like crap-on-a-cracker to the audience, and what sounds killer to the audience can sound like poo up close.
all things are relative.

**jmattbassplaya** · #10 01-17-2010, 03:55 PM

I was in your position the first few years I was playing. What it really came down to was two things: 1. learning how to properly use my gear (ie. set things flat and go backwards. Boosting often causes muddiness and makes tones sound like poo. Also, mids are your friend) and 2. fixing my technique. Once I started using proper technique my skill and tone increased 10 fold.

mcmeister · #11 01-17-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

2. fixing my technique. Once I started using proper technique my skill and tone increased 10 fold.

Would you mind elaborating on this a little. What does proper technique entail to you?

ehque · #12 01-17-2010, 07:18 PM

I think the necessity of fretting properly and muting properly only becomes apparent when playing at volume. Is it your technique, or is it because you are not EQing your gear properly?

dabass · #13 01-17-2010, 07:25 PM

Hey make sure the other instruments aren't too loud! Take everyone "down a notch"!

M0ses · #14 01-17-2010, 07:34 PM

What does your EQ look like? Maybe you're using a scooped tone, and it's not the volume that ruins your tone, it's the mix.

Scooped tone = great solo, horrid mixed

Ric5 · #15 01-17-2010, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AEONmw

...Help !

I really hate my sound ! I've always practiced with a low level, but whenever I get into a Jam situation that requires loud volume, I absolutely hate my sound. My bass/rig simply become unplayable. I quit a band recently simply because I hate how I sound.

I'm an average skill level, but there's a huge disconnect between quiet levels and loud that I find completely disorienting. At low levels, I get that sort of smooth Pattitucci sound. Once I get any volume, the whole frikk'n sound falls apart.

How do you emulated that Pattitucci sound. Any speculation as to what sort of signal/effect chain one would need to get that similar sound ?

What sounds good in your basement at low volume is not what sounds good with a band.

You probably need a rig with more overhead ... then try less bass and more mids ...

ggunn · #16 01-17-2010, 07:46 PM

When you say you hate your sound, that could mean anything; there are a whole lot more ways to sound bad than there are to sound good. One way to sound bad is to not mute unplayed strings so that there is an undercurrent of mud underneath everything you play. Another is to have so much low end and midbass in your sound that you can't really discern what notes you are playing. Still another is to press the strings too far behind the frets so that they vibrate and buzz on the frets. And the list goes on...

Learning to play bass is as much learning what not to do as it it is learning scales and riffs.

OtterOnBass · #17 01-17-2010, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waleross

.. The other Forum members are right again. You can always find the happy medium on any rig, no matter what. Same goes with the bass. "Let me know if you can hear the bass"................

What about speaker distortion? The biggest item in the signal chain that affects the sound is the speaker. As soon as you bring that volume up, the distortion creeps in. Your speakers are changing your tone at live volume. Either find a tone that you like at live volume (which you doesn't seem able to do) or buy better/more speakers.

M0ses · #18 01-17-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OtterOnBass

Your speakers are changing your tone at live volume. Either find a tone that you like at live volume (which you doesn't seem able to do) or buy better/more speakers.

I'd just like to point out the speakers alter your tone at ANY volume, and buying more of the same speakers won't have an effect on their inherent tone other than getting rid of the distortion factor. So if distortion isn't the problem, more would be useless, you'd need DIFFERENT speakers.

EDIT: more speakers wouldn't be useless, as they'd be louder, which can be useful, but their effect on tone would be zilch (neglecting distortion, like I said)

Rocky · #19 01-17-2010, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorOfDoom

also, to continue my rant, it should be noted that what sounds good by itself (you playing alone in your bedroom, no matter what volume) rarely sounds good in a band mix; inversely, what sounds good in a band mix rarely sounds good by itself.
and the sound you hear in a band mix while 2 feet away from your amp is not what you sound like 5 feet away, and that sounds different 10 feet away.
dispersion is related to distance. what sounds killer up close can sound like crap-on-a-cracker to the audience, and what sounds killer to the audience can sound like poo up close.
all things are relative.

Man ain't that the truth! I like a full, big ballsy sound as I play blues and blues rock material. I find that if set up my stage sound to what I like, it sounds like mud in the audience (not talking about P.A. support here). I tend to set my sound up with a little more high mid and treble than what I like to hear and then it sounds good out front unless I do have P.A. support then I set it up to hear what I like since its basically a stage monitor. At home I set it up to my preference since I don't practice loud anyhow.

gregmerrill · #20 01-17-2010, 08:02 PM

Yeah it's much easeir to get a nice sound from a low volume. You probably would not like the sound of your favorite cd blasting either. I am the same way. Consider the ride and crash cymbles of you drummer sucking the life out of your tone. You might as well turn your TV up on volume 100 and turn to a station where there is nothing but static. Its not much different. If the drummer was playing with brushes I bet you would like your sound. When your so close to him or her it's gonna mess up your sound. that's just the nature of this business it's going to be very loud. Everyone turns up to match the drummer. But remember what is heard out front can be much different. If you recorded it and had it mixed well you probably would think better of your sound. Your just the type that should be playing with a major symphony orchestra where your sound does not get washed out. I'd cut yourself a break. The drummer can make or break your sound.