Should i pay towards the PA?

dave_bass5 · #1 06-29-2007, 12:47 PM

Guys
I dont know what to do. Ive been with this band for 4 years almost and we gig regularly. In the beginning the guitarist paid out £400 for our PA speakers and also paid for the power amp. i supplied a desk and FX unit. I dont do any sort of vocals so as far as im concerned the PA is nothing to do with me although i realise thats open to debate and i have contributed to it in the past by buying leads etc.
Our speakers are very heavy and 18 months ago our guitarist said he was going to buy some new, lighter ones. Just recently i have been pushing for us/him to get the new ones but nothing was happening. I also got us a new desk and asked the band that we all go 1/4 on it and they were happy to do that. We got the desk as i have also been pushing to get us all through the PA and the old desk didn't have enough working channels.
in the mean time i have paid out over £1500 for new gear for myself and over £2000 since joining the band.
The guitarist and singer have a duo that they use the PA for and they also have a trio with the drummer, again using the PA. Not a lot of gigs but gigging anyway. The singer who also plays guitar has spent maybe £200 very Max in the last 4 years. The drummer has paid for a new kit but he also sings.

I have now found out the guitarist is going to ask us all to put £10 each, per gig in to a kitty to pay for the new speakers.
I resent this as i feel i wont get as much use out of them as the other three but i dont know how to say it without it sounding wrong.

Bear in mind that there is nothing actually wrong with our PA so its not a case of if we don't get the new speakers we cant gig.

Any thoughts?

eedre · #2 06-29-2007, 01:20 PM

Wouldn't split anything. You were doing the right thing by each of you buying the separate pieces so you can claim full ownership on those things.

T-Bird · #3 06-29-2007, 01:23 PM

Hi, Dave

A tough situation IMO.

We just went from a 5 piece voc, dr, g, g, b+voc setup to a 3 piece g, dr, b+voc and had to determine the cut for everyone, well some of it is still under debate

.

The easiest solution for a hobby point of view is that everyone owns pieces of the PA and the cords, maintenance and such come from the band fund. That way it's easier to control in a possible break up. If some of the members use someone elses stuff in an "own gig", the owner of the said gear is compensated.

The other (a bit more pro) solution is that everyone owns a equal share of the gear regardless of the usage in that particular (main) band. If the other members use the gear, do FOH gigs, own gigs, discos, karaoke, anything, an agreed percentage or a fixed sum goes for the band fund and becomes the share holders money. That way there's an equal opportunity for everyone to use the gear and the band as whole benefits.

All of this must naturally be in writing and someone reliable must handle the book-keeping.

BTW, the guitarist and others are probably going to put aside 10£ each in those other gigs as well?

Good luck, You'll need it

Just my 0.02€
Sam

dave_bass5 · #4 06-29-2007, 01:25 PM

Well thats how i feel.
I didn't mind the desk as i wont ever need to claim it but i do begrudge wear and tear on speakers i don't use but have paid for.

thanks

dave_bass5 · #5 06-29-2007, 01:33 PM

Sam
No, they wont put away anything in the other gigs, just our main band.
I see your point on each owning a bit but apart from speakers i have enough gear to make my own PA so will never, ever need any of the gear this band uses.
when we got the new desk i paid out £22 for two short xlr-xlr leads for connecting it to the power amp. these are good quality leads. our singer goes and gets 7 very cheap mic leads off ebay and a £19 SM58 copy to mic his (and i dont think it is actually his) guitar amp with.
Im fighting tightness here and after the amount i have paid to help the band sound better i see no reason why i should pay to make someone else sound good.
And if i try and put it to them about paying me a small amount when they use the gear they just wont tell me they are using it.

Rant over, thanks for reading ;-)

CrashClint · #6 06-29-2007, 01:51 PM

We had a similiar discussion to this in this post. The band really needs to be run as a business. If members are wanting to use the bands equipment for a seperate project, then they need to rent it from the band.

T-Bird · #7 06-29-2007, 01:52 PM

Hi, Dave.

That sounds just like BS from Your mates. So they want to use the gear for free if one owner is not present, sweeelll.

I'd personally consider very carefully about continuing with that kind of people, if there's any "community" money involved. And in a situation like Yours, I'd stick with the older, heavier cabs also. Those will break or wear out eventually, and then it's descision time for real.

Hope it will work out for You.

Sam

spudmaster34 · #8 06-29-2007, 08:35 PM

If they really do want to do this communally, then ALL gigs should have the required kitty, that way whoever is going to be using it the most pays for most of it, and whoever uses it the least (you) pays the least.

dave_bass5 · #9 06-30-2007, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudmaster34

If they really do want to do this communally, then ALL gigs should have the required kitty, that way whoever is going to be using it the most pays for most of it, and whoever uses it the least (you) pays the least.

I agree. Thing is they dont have any Duo/trio gigs for a couple of months, by which time we would have got the new speakers.
I think im going to say i want maybe a £5 each time they use them. Only problem there is that i wont always know where they are using them as they can say they used the old ones.

gottawalk · #10 06-30-2007, 04:42 PM

From what I could tell, I guess that your bass does not go through the mains. Is the PA strictly vocal? Must be smaller clubs or a weird mix...

Anyway; I was in a band that we all owned different parts of the PA. What we did was agree on a flat percentage of the nights gross pay right off the top that would go towards the PA "depreciation", and then that amount was divided up, not equally, but by the percentage of each person's ownership of gear. Those that owned more of the PA got a larger percentage of the depreciation money. This way, we felt that we were being compensated for everyone using our part of the gear. What was left of the night's money was divided equally, then, between us all. Personal gear, (bass, amps, pedals, etc.), were our own responibility. If we had a vocalist, then they were responsible for their own mic, and monitor(s). Tough to initially figure out, but once the percentages are agreed on, then it was pretty easy to keep track. (...until someone bought another power amp, or something, then we had to revamp the %'s

)

It's complicated, but it's a thought... Don't buy into anything unless you're going to get something out of it. If the band breaks up, then you don't get anything for your investment until someone buys the rest of you out or the gear gets sold...

dave_bass5 · #11 06-30-2007, 07:53 PM

Well no one brought it up at tonights gig so ill wait for them to say sometihng.
Yes, we play small clubs, maybe 200 people max so i dont need to go through the PA.

gottawalk · #12 06-30-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

.....Yes, we play small clubs, maybe 200 people max so i dont need to go through the PA.

That's usually how it works with me these days, too. Sounds like since they didn't bring it up, yet, you still have time to figure out what you're going to do. Good luck. It's never easy, is it?

Steve · #13 07-01-2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

I also got us a new desk and asked the band that we all go 1/4 on it....

the guitarist is going to ask us all to put £10 each, per gig in to a kitty to pay for the new speakers.....

Any thoughts?

Given that I got my expenses shared and a precedent had been set, I personally would find that an uncomfortable position to argue.

Communal ownership of gear is always a snake pit IMHO but you're there now.

If I liked the band and it was making money, I think I'd just consider it cost of doing business.

Especially if I was the one that was pushing for the equipment to be bought in the first place.

dave_bass5 · #14 07-02-2007, 03:34 AM

Steve
Although i was pushing for the speakers to be replaced it was only because the guitarist, who got the first set, said he was going to do it. This was 18months+ ago.
We are only looking at about £350 so its not the money thats a problem. I just resent having to do it.
It makes me feel like the singer is having an easy ride as he very rarely buys anything and when he does its the cheapest he can get. I have spent a fortune on getting a good sound, for the good of the band, the drummer and guitarist have as well but the singer who plays rhythm as well is just prepared to use whatever he can borrow and i feel that its time he put his hand in his pocket to improve on his sound and that includes the PA. We have all put in to the PA but its a more casual thing like if a lead packs up or whatever someone will just go and buy one (normally me) without any problem. But its just dawning on me how much i have provided for the PA.

we dont run this band as a business. We all have day jobs and i have another regular band that pays better and the rest have the trio, plus the singer and guitarist have another duo so to me it makes sense they get the speakers replaced or we stick with what we have. I only see them at gigs although we are all old friends but i wont know if they are using them.

T-Bird · #15 07-02-2007, 10:39 AM

Hi, Dave.

If You don't mind me asking, what kind of PA-speakers are You talking about? £350 doesn't sound like much qualitywise, specially if new, and IMO what ever those speakers are, I doubt that You could run bass through 'em even If You wanted/needed to. So my opinion would be that You probably shouldn't pay anything for those cabs, but that's just me.

As a side note:
My main Pa is 2* EV TL505 18" subs á 400W and 2*Electrosound something

18"+12"+2*1" horn á 600W powered by 2*Carver Pm1.5 :s and that's just loud enough to have a balanced FOH mix that sounds and feels

good in a venue of a size of 100-200 people. Naturally everything goes to the PA, not just vocals. And Yep, those babies are quite heavy too.

And BTW, what are those old PA speakers Your band is using at the moment?

Sam

dave_bass5 · #16 07-02-2007, 11:48 AM

Sam
At the moment we have a pair of GAE system midrange speakers. New these cost around £1600 EACH but we got them for £400 the pair as they came out of an instalation.
They are very heavy speakers but they doo seem to take all we through at them.
The ones we were looking at are a pair of Mackie 1x12 cabs that Soundcontrol were knocking out cheap. The idea was although they wont be much of an improvement soundwise at that price we could at least get lighter cabs. plus our cabs arent really full range as the are designed to be part of a system. Lacking a lot of low end when we run my iPod or Cd's through them.

I do agree with you and i would much rather pay more for decent speakers. Because of space problems we cant really get anything too big and we cant get a sub in the car either.

End of the day though this set up has served us well in over 200 gigs so it does work and is enough to continue with but it would be great to sound better.