Singing lead playing bass.

lineboss58 · #1 08-20-2010, 05:30 AM

How many of us are there who have been for some reason ended up taking the roll of lead vocalist in a band. This isnt some kind of bluffers guide on how to do it more like an appraisal on some of the problems involved. Many of us can without any hesitation name many guitarists or keyboard players that sing lead but bassists are not that common. I have found that the bass line and the melody on occasion contradict each other and if the bassline is buisy thats when the fun begins. It seems this is a bit of a black art with some notable practiconers, paul macartney, jack bruce, geddy lee, shelly burke, spring to mind. This is a job i did many years ago but now after a long break i find myself doing again.

Broadbent · #2 08-20-2010, 05:34 AM

Lemmy, Les Claypool, Phil Lynott.... It's something I can't do, but I can't strum an acoustic and sing either. Not to mention I have a terrible singing voice. I do try to do as many backups as I can though. It's something I'd like to learn and I think all bassists should learn to do.

ggunn · #3 08-20-2010, 06:46 AM

The most obvious example: Sting (Gordon Sumner).

crobasster · #4 08-20-2010, 06:49 AM

There's me 6-7 years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FHojBdqkDA

MalcolmAmos · #5 08-20-2010, 07:13 AM

Walking and chewing gum. Rhythm guitar and singing not a problem as I have always sung the song under my breath to know when to change chords and to make sure the vocalist and I are on the same page. Raising the volume and having noise come from my mouth is not a problem if I'm on rhythm guitar.

Now on the bass I'm into the walking and chewing gum phrase. Playing my bass has not reached the level I can switch into automatic pilot. So I'm not able to play and sing at the same time. I do believe that will happen, just not yet.

OPBASSMAN1994 · #6 08-20-2010, 09:14 AM

I do that for my band. We're a three piece Christian Prog/alt Rock Trio (sounds interesting, huh? Somehow it works...I'm not sure how, but it does.) I also hit the keys, acoustic guitars, and when the guitarist wants to take a lead vocal, I sing back up. I'm told I sing pretty well, and play pretty well, so I guess it's true. I enjoy being a musician...

The key to singing lead vocals and playing bass, is learning to relax. You have to let your voice do its thing and your hands/tapping or stomping heel do their thing. It's hard at first, but if you work at it, you learn to let it flow. Another helpful thing is when you can write a bassline that accommodates the vocal, (eighth notes, simple rhythmic, or rests when their is a more complex vocal part, then go crazy) and vice versa (Writing a vocal part that takes its cues from the bassline, rhythmically taking the moments when the bass is a little less crazy.) Sometimes, just plain playing fast can take a load off of your vocal responsibility, because playing constant sixteenth or eighth notes means that their is no syncopation to deal with, thus you can put a different rhythm on top of what you're playing, and it won't be so hard, because there is less complexity in the bass (and base) rhythm, to keep your mind occupied.

MonetBass · #7 08-20-2010, 10:01 AM

Geedy Lee, Richard Page of Mr. Mister, Kip Winger, Paul McCartney... there are many. The trick is to understand how the rhythms of the vocals play against the bass line you're playing. It's easier on some songs than others. As with everything, practice will get you there.

Rocker949 · #8 08-20-2010, 10:31 AM

I've found that if you allow your brain to disregard how hard it's supposed to be, this can help. Your subconscious mind tends to act on what it's fed. The chances are you can do it better than may be apparent at first. But it takes a lot of practice. I'm out of practice and can't do it as well as I used to. It may sound simple to say practice makes perfect, but even McCartney has essentially said this is how he got good at singing and playing.

bucephylus · #9 08-20-2010, 10:31 AM

First, as an entertainer, all bassists should recognize that the normal person in the audience primarily hears the vocals. So, all bassists should try, within their capabilities, to contribute to the singing.

Next, if you are blessed with a great voice, it would be a shame to waste it. The bass line is a secondary supportive function. I say, if you can sing, go for it, and the bass lines will fall in where they may.

In my own case, I was not born with a significant range capability. But, I figure that Billie Holiday had less then an octave of useful range (at least that's what I heard) and look what she did with it. So, I just pick out the tunes that people know that are within my range. I guess it was about ten years ago that I figured I would get more mileage out of learning to sing vs playing more notes. And although I don't normally take the lead vox position, I do have about 40 - 45 tunes that I can do and contribute with, and if the front person wigs out, I can carry the gig if need be.

Finally, it has been my experience that doing at least some singing has some other advantages; among them, it helps you as a player hear the whole mix, you get to sing some really great songs, and it helps you hear how to fit bass lines into the vocals; because as I said earlier, the vocals are the main thing people listen for. So, there is significant synergy, and learning to sing some lead parts will actually make you a much better and more aware bass player.

IME/O

GL to all.

totallyfrozen · #10 08-20-2010, 12:40 PM

Mark King of Level 42

Philbiker · #11 08-20-2010, 12:45 PM

It's hard to do. Takes LOTS of practice. It's very rewarding when you can disassociate the bass playing from the singing - which takes a lot of work.

Here's one of my current bands a couple years ago. I'm mostly off camera.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVUi6v2ECRM

newwavefrank · #12 08-20-2010, 12:47 PM

I don't find it any more difficult than playing guitar and singing, except for holding more weight around your neck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taIqQrddWM

**nervous** · #13 08-20-2010, 12:52 PM

I do it all the time but it takes a lot of time and practice to get there. I do it with guitar as well. In our duo with only two voices you have to do a lot of things at once. I still remember the first song I learned to play and sing a long, long time ago which was Already Gone by the Eagles. I remember it being a big milestone. It's really just a matter of doing it a lot.

laboitenoire · #14 08-20-2010, 12:56 PM

I've been singing and playing bass for years, but I suck at doing both concurrently. There's only a few songs that I find it possible to do (mainly Little Wing). However, I can do backup fairly reliably, either singing or screaming/shouting.

Hoffman6000 · #15 08-20-2010, 01:17 PM

A key factor in keeping your lines sounding great while multitasking as lead singer is consistency from your drummer's foot. If he changes patterns randomly, or fills while you're singing lead, it messes with your head. I learned to sing and play by starting simple with country songs, then move to the 8th note rock stuff, and after LOTS of practice of pushing and dragging your vocals out of and back into time while keeping the bass groove straight, move on to the complicated motown lines...Eventually you'll have to have 2 seperate grooves going on and they won't interfere anymore.

The hardest part for me is mixing my incredibly uninteresting between-song Banter with trying to tune, making patch changes, getting a drink, call the next tune, wink at the girls, etc....

**TRichardsbass** · #16 08-20-2010, 01:26 PM

Even guitar players will tell you that it is much harder to sing and play bass.

I've done it for the past 30 years. I play original music though, so there are some tricks. I often "dumb down" the bass parts for live performances, so that singing and playing are easier. My recorded stuff has much better basslines, but I have found ways to simplify them so that the fans don't notice much of a difference. If you listen to live recordings of Sting when he was with the Police, you will notice he did that as well. I remember watching him in 1983 singing and playing "King of Pain" and noticing that his fingering didn't match the bassline I was hearing. Turns out that the guitar tech played the actual bassline behind the stage for that one.

If you are in a cover band, you have a super tough job. The basslines on many songs are often the trademark that people need to hear in order to consider you a good band. It is nearly impossible to play a copy of Jamerson's "I Want You Back" (or was it Felder, I forget) bassline and sing the lead part of the song together, even with years of practice because the line and vocal melody just don't mesh. But you cannot play that song without that bassline.

I'll +1 the rest, its just a ton of practice. I find that if I learn the bassline super well first, then rehearse the vocal over it, it is easier.

redbeard74 · #17 08-21-2010, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoffman6000

A key factor in keeping your lines sounding great while multitasking as lead singer is consistency from your drummer's foot. If he changes patterns randomly, or fills while you're singing lead, it messes with your head. I learned to sing and play by starting simple with country songs, then move to the 8th note rock stuff, and after LOTS of practice of pushing and dragging your vocals out of and back into time while keeping the bass groove straight, move on to the complicated motown lines...Eventually you'll have to have 2 seperate grooves going on and they won't interfere anymore.

The hardest part for me is mixing my incredibly uninteresting between-song Banter with trying to tune, making patch changes, getting a drink, call the next tune, wink at the girls, etc....

I agree with this. I have shifted to lead vocals in our band and I remember when we got a new (awesome) drummer, a couple of songs I was struggling to sing and play just fell into place for me. I was a bit shocked, then realized the new drummer was laying down a rock solid foundation and that made a huge difference.

I guess I started with Eagles covers, like Tequila Sunrise, Peaceful Easy Feeling, etc. I thought Wild Night (Van Morrison) was going to be impossible at first and so did the rest of the band, but after three takes we realized I would be able to get it.
I think singing songs that are within your range is crucial. It just helps keep the confidence up.

Nedmundo · #18 08-21-2010, 08:57 AM

I did this frequently in high school and college, when I played relatively simple cover tunes. Even then, it took some practice, but once I got a few songs under my belt, the others came more easily.

After many years off, I ended up in an original band with several songs having relatively complex bass parts. The leader also liked elaborate backing vocals, some of which were difficult to mesh with the bass lines. Sometimes, I dumbed down the bass lines, as others have suggested.

I also found it helpful to think of it like the left and right hand parts for piano. I'd take a complex part, and break down where the bass notes and vocal notes came in the bar. I'd play very slowly at first to get the timing down, and, over time, try to coordinate them into a unified whole. This was difficult, and I wasn't always able to pull it off cleanly, but if you want to preserve your bass parts I think it's the way to go. After you get a few difficult parts down, it should become easier.

In my current band, I come up with my own backing vocal parts, so I craft them around the bass part. When my bass part is highly syncopated, I just shy away from the vox.