The Specials v Madness

[Tituscrow]

The last interview I read with him was from 2009 just after the reunion. In it, he talked mainly about band relationships, the fallout with Dammers and his love of teaching kids with special needs. No mention of gear at all.

Interestingly, he also said he'd love The Specials rhythm section to do a guest appearance on a record at some point in the future.

You are bang on with your description of his playing. If ever you needed testimony to the old adage 'it's in the hands', that first album just oozes class.

But lets not forget the sterling work of Bedders here

[HolmeBass]

Oh I agree, I don't think there was a single Two Tone band that didn't have an excellent bassist. And Madness had one of the highest charting Two Tone hits with " Our House". Heck, they played in the closing ceremony of the Olympics didn't they?

[GregC]

Excellent thread topic, Titus. I've been on a similar binge for a year or two now. This came after I got hooked (yet again) on the growth of British pub rock into "new wave" or whatever--early Elvis C., Nick Lowe, Dave Edmunds, Graham Parker, Squeeze, Joe Jackson, etc.

Back in the day, the ska bands with more pop elements to their sound grabbed me--The (English) Beat and Madness, especially. I also misunderstood the British skinhead movement back then, as it unfortunately represented something very different, ugly and violent in American punk.

Now I find the Specials more interesting and exciting. (The bass work is certainly strong in all three bands' work, though.) The second Specials album has grown on me, despite going in a significantly different direction from the first.

I really dig Horace's sound throughout both albums. From the clips I've seen, he primarily used a P with flats back in the day, although he used a Tele bass for a while as well. For the more recent stuff, it's typically been a T bird, but I've seen him with a jazz bass, too. Not sure about his rig.

I've been following the Specials' reunion with some interest for a while. They haven't played any US dates during the reunion phase other than Coachella and perhaps an NYC show . So as soon as the US tour was announced, I scoured the Internet and waited for tickets to come out for the Chicago show. As soon as they did, I grabbed'em up. March 11, I cannot wait!

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by GregC

Excellent thread topic, Titus. I've been on a similar binge for a year or two now. This came after I got hooked (yet again) on the growth of British pub rock into "new wave" or whatever--early Elvis C., Nick Lowe, Dave Edmunds, Graham Parker, Squeeze, Joe Jackson, etc.

Back in the day, the ska bands with more pop elements to their sound grabbed me--The (English) Beat and Madness, especially. I also misunderstood the British skinhead movement back then, as it unfortunately represented something very different, ugly and violent in American punk.

Now I find the Specials more interesting and exciting. (The bass work is certainly strong in all three bands' work, though.) The second Specials album has grown on me, despite going in a significantly different direction from the first.

I really dig Horace's sound throughout both albums. From the clips I've seen, he primarily used a P with flats back in the day, although he used a Tele bass for a while as well. For the more recent stuff, it's typically been a T bird, but I've seen him with a jazz bass, too. Not sure about his rig.

I've been following the Specials' reunion with some interest for a while. They haven't played any US dates during the reunion phase other than Coachella and perhaps an NYC show . So as soon as the US tour was announced, I scoured the Internet and waited for tickets to come out for the Chicago show. As soon as they did, I grabbed'em up. March 11, I cannot wait!

Thanks Greg

I know what you mean about the whole skinhead thing. I have to say, the amount of skins at Specials shows over here is a ratio of about 3:1, but you know what? Not a thug amongst 'em! Cracking crowds.

I also think its worth noting that a big difference between the two bands are the lyrics. The Specials stuff oozes social commentary and is rooted in the Thatcherite mess if the early 80's and 'Ghost Town' perhaps epitomises this. I know they also take a very strong anti-racism stance, but then with Lynval and Neville in the band, its hardly surprising. I actually loved the Fun Boy Three stuff too.

Madness however seem to have more 'fun/party' style themes that are not rooted to any particular era.

I'm glad you've got tickets for the show in March...make sure you update us on how it goes. I predict here and now that you will be blown away. They still got it, big time.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Thanks Greg

I know what you mean about the whole skinhead thing. I have to say, the amount of skins at Specials shows over here is a ratio of about 3:1, but you know what? Not a thug amongst 'em! Cracking crowds.

I also think its worth noting that a big difference between the two bands are the lyrics. The Specials stuff oozes social commentary and is rooted in the Thatcherite mess if the early 80's and 'Ghost Town' perhaps epitomises this. I know they also take a very strong anti-racism stance, but then with Lynval and Neville in the band, its hardly surprising. I actually loved the Fun Boy Three stuff too.

Madness however seem to have more 'fun/party' style themes that are not rooted to any particular era.

I'm glad you've got tickets for the show in March...make sure you update us on how it goes. I predict here and now that you will be blown away. They still got it, big time.

The clips I've seen certainly reflect that! I will update for sure.

One sad note: Neville left the band last month. Apparently it's a combination of health issues and wanting to front his own group. He will be sorely missed, but I'm still stoked for the show.

[Folmeister]

I was, and still am, a huge Madness fan! For several years in the 80s it was all Madness and Oingo Boingo. I'll float against the tide and say Madness as best!

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by Folmeister

I was, and still am, a huge Madness fan! For several years in the 80s it was all Madness and Oingo Boingo. I'll float against the tide and say Madness as best!

That's cool. So which songs do you think best highlight Bedders' work?

[Vince Klortho]

I really like the 80s ska stuff too. Most all ska actually. The Specials and English Beat were two of my favorites. Madness was good too. There are some pretty good American ska bands too. I love good ska bass playing. I have done a few sessions for ska projects in the past. Really fun stuff !

A funny story - in the early 90s I was between bands and I did a lot of sound work. One of the shows I did was the Voodoo Glow Skulls (skacore) with Skankin Pickle opening up. I was talking to Mike of the Pickles and I said I had just heard a live album from a combination of the Specials and the English Beat called the Special Beat and it was pretty cool. I asked him if he had heard of them and he said, "yes, we opened for them." I thought that was pretty funny.

[Caca de Kick]

The Specials were it for me when I first picked up the bass in high school, it's seems that's all me and my friends listened to. That first album I made a point to learn entirely, which was very tough to a bass newbie.

Horace used a circa '72 Precision; typical sunburst alder body with rosewood board.
Sometime before the 2nd, his P Bass was stolen. So he picked up a Telecaster Bass, the later kind with the mudbucker pickup. He didn't care for that one much (I don't blame him...I think they're aweful too).
He seems to have went back to the split-coil Precisons in General Public.
The only BP interview I saw was back around 94/95 ish.

"It Doesn't Make it Alright" is my favorite one to play. But yeah as mentioned, everything on that first album is golden.

[phangtonpower]

The specials for me. They stayed truer to Ska and Reggae a little longer than Madness. Madness was a great band, but they evolved more into "our house" style, which is fine because they stayed relevant a little longer. Plus "Our House"is an awesome song.
Anyway here you go, the original ska version of one step beyond and madness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3DAHAPLaVI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZC6Ot1MLP0

[Tituscrow]

Hey Greg...you still off to see The Specials tomorrow night? Don't forget to report back. Set list, venue, atmosphere etc, but most importantly how good was Horace?

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Hey Greg...you still off to see The Specials tomorrow night? Don't forget to report back. Set list, venue, atmosphere etc, but most importantly how good was Horace?

Absolutely, Titus, I'm really looking forward to it. The venue is a good one--the Vic (an English name, eh?). It holds a bit over 1000 and it's in my neighborhood. The show is sold out.

[bongomania]

Madness started off cool, but they plummeted down to saccharine pop after their big MTV splash. It took me a bit longer to appreciate The Specials, but they were the ones whose tunes have staying power and I can dig them any day.

[chee666]

The Specials much more legitimacy.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by GregC

Absolutely, Titus, I'm really looking forward to it. The venue is a good one--the Vic (an English name, eh?). It holds a bit over 1000 and it's in my neighborhood. The show is sold out.

Like I said previously, I saw them a few times on the 2009 reunion tour. The place was bouncing and they nailed it. Curious to see how they fill up the stage without Neville...

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Like I said previously, I saw them a few times on the 2009 reunion tour. The place was bouncing and they nailed it. Curious to see how they fill up the stage without Neville...

The show was fantastic! Even with the absence of Neville, I can recommend it without reservation to any West Coast TBers who are near their tour stops. I'll write a more expansive review tonight.

[Tituscrow]

Originally Posted by GregC

The show was fantastic! Even with the absence of Neville, I can recommend it without reservation to any West Coast TBers who are near their tour stops. I'll write a more expansive review tonight.

Knew you'd dig them. Looking forward to reading a more comprehensive review

[GregC]

Originally Posted by Tituscrow

Knew you'd dig them. Looking forward to reading a more comprehensive review

Ooof, sorry, the past week has been manic and I forgot to write this up. So now I'll make up for the delay with a very long-winded review.

As I said, they were fantastic. The club was packed, but we were lucky enough to find a spot in front of a railing--the venue doubles as a movie theater (the tables and chairs were removed), so the main floor has four or five levels that drop by a foot or two for each one as you approach the stage.

I was a little worried at the start. I'd heard Roddy had been bickering with some of the others last year. When the band came out to the strains of Enjoy Yourself (Reprise), and the lights popped on as they charged into Do The Dog--no Roddy! He came on about 10 seconds into the song, plugged in and proceeded to blow some liquid up into the air several times during the song. He settled down a bit after that, fortunately.

The band kicked ass. Horace was great, of course, nailing everything (a bit muted, though, due to the mix) and providing a regal presence. I was equally impressed with John Bradbury on drums; the two of them are an absolute machine.

Lynval might've been my favorite that night. He stepped up his game on vocals, filling in Neville's parts on certain songs--though they didn't attempt Stupid Marriage, they omitted the second half of Stereotype, and they played the bridge to Hey, Little Rich Girl without vocals. Lynval seemed particularly engaging and grateful for the crowd's support, which was loud and enthusiastic throughout.

Lynval and Roddy were the primarily stage-fillers in Neville's absence, racing back and forth quite a bit during the set. Horace alternated between standing as far back as possible by his SVT stack next to Bradbury, standing in front of the drum riser, and moving to the front of the stage.

During It Doesn't Make It Alright, Roddy sang the bit about "Just because you're a black boy...", etc. with Lynval at the same mic, then planted a kiss on Lynval's lips and cackled.

Terry was Terry: He sang well, but was otherwise reserved. He did dish out sarcastic lines now and then--often enough near the end that I suspect he might have actually had a good time.

A large portion of the crowd sang along with practically every word. During Nite Klub, the crowd sang the lyrics to the bridge while Terry stood there, clearly wanting to draw out the bridge before coming in with the vocals. And during the last song, You're Wondering Now, the crowd kept singing the a cappella refrain, clearly not wanting the show to end, as the band left.

So yeah, it was a great night. I found the set list: http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/the-sp...-2bdb587e.html

Ah, and here's the clip of It Doesn't Make It Alright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2wxihgNM-s

[Vince Klortho]

I downloaded that clip and saw a link there to their entire set at Glastonbury in 2009 so, of course, I got that too. What a great show !

Horace played a Thunderbird through the whole show. Was his sound like that when you saw him ? It's really distorted and fuzzed out. It could be from the recording and transfer but I am curious about that. His playing was great but I don't like the sound very much.

[Caca de Kick]

They're playing here tonight, and I'm going. Can't wait!