tb Hip hop Roundtable

[your idol]

Well i had a thread in basses that started wandering off topic in a positive direction. Theres alot of rockers on here (and i rock too) but i wanted to create a random hip hop discussion thread so we can talk about our favorite artists, musicians, samples and whats hot to us.

It seemed like the whole one thing leads to another thing was coming true in the other thread and people wanted to chime in more so heres the place. Keep the respect up and lets have fun.

[your idol]

So to spark things off ill bring up "The Chronic" brilliant samples or 2 guys rapping over a pfunk album? Where is the line between sampling a track or just rapping over other peoples whole songs crossed?

[bass12]

This thread is a nice idea and I'd like to throw something out there right now. If you feel the need to express your disdain for rap or hip-hop in general, this is not the place to do it. Keep your opinions to yourself or start another thread. I'm not suggesting any of the negative aspects of hip-hop not be discussed here, but if your only agenda is to point out how rap is a substandard genre please go somewhere else. Honestly, it seems as if almost every hip-hop-oriented thread ends up being a forum for those who don't like the music to air their frustrations.

Having said that, I was never a huge fan of Dre or Snoop. However, I think that The Chronic is a fantastic album sonically. To me it just sounds good. As for the samples, well, that's really the nature of hip-hop music, isn't it? To me, there's enough of an "interpretation" of the original music that it doesn't just seem like unimaginative "ripping off" (funny how people never seem to rag on jazz musicians for playing standards - and no, I'm not bashing bebop). And hey, let's not forget that there's some sweet live bass on that album!

[Absentia]

go to Pandora
Make a station for Blackalicious

WORD!

[Jared Lash]

I think this thread belongs in Miscellaneous, but I'm always good with more hip-hop threads.

To me hip-hop is like any other genre - there's a lot of stuff I find that I really dig but even more that I find unlistenable.

I'll have to dig up mp3's of stuff I've done with a Berkeley hip-hop collective. I dig playing hip-hop bass. It's similar to reggae or dub stuff. Interesting but generally not overly complex line that you just lose yourself grooving too for minutes at a time.

As far as my own hip-hop listening goes, I really dig The Roots, Atmosphere, Common, RZA, old Tribe and De La Soul, Del, Hieroglyphics, and a ton more. Some of my absolute favorite stuff comes from the Quannum label and cats like DJ Shadow, Blackalicious, Lateef and Lyrics Born.

DJ Shadow
Blackalicious
Lyrics Born
More LB

[Absentia]

SO what do we call crap like lil wayne?

[Double Agent]

Originally Posted by Absentia

SO what do we call crap like lil wayne?

I think crap suffices pretty well.

To the OP, great idea for a thread. This genre is generally under-discussed and under-appreciated here at TB. Much like the current rock music scene, most of the stuff that is played on MTV is garbage, but if you do a little digging there is a lot of stuff out there with both musical substance and style. I'm not an afficiando by any means, but I appreciate stuff like The Roots, as well funkier hip-hop acts like Outkast and old Black Eyed Peas (they were great at first, but have gotten progressively worse and are currently almost unlistenable IMO). Most of my familiarity with the genre comes from the R&B/Neo-Soul genre(hip-hop production values, but with R&B singing style), which one my current bands plays a lot of. Stuff like Ne-Yo, Musiq(Soulchild), R. Kelly, etc. I will be looking in here to get some suggestions of other stuff to check out.

[warwick.hoy]

I have an appreciation for hip-hop. It's not my go to genre to listen to,...but when I make a playlist,...I make sure to throw some on there.

I really like some of the Anticon artists such as Alias and Dose-1. They are a bit of a trance/psych vibe and they flow about metaphysical and mental type stuff. Generally a positive vibe. Alias makes his own beats too,...it's not just samples of the Amen Break.

I also love the album Liquid Sword by Genius/GZA and really any Wu-Tang for that matter.

People Under the Stairs rock it too.

A nod to The Fugees The Score as well as anything by The Roots (?love FTW).

As Jared mentioned and I've brought up many times in the past,...there is garbage in every genre and it is usually perpetrated when big companies discover that money can be made. Hip hop was relevant when it was underground (and still is when it is underground),...anything mainstream,...forget it.

[TIMD]

Originally Posted by your idol

So to spark things off ill bring up "The Chronic" brilliant samples or 2 guys rapping over a pfunk album? Where is the line between sampling a track or just rapping over other peoples whole songs crossed?

My favorite sample off that album was Leon Haywoods I Wanta Do Something Freaky To You, killer bass line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzUBh1eK2kE

On another note http://www.the-breaks.com/ is a great resource for finding the original artist that was sampled, it turned me on to a alot of great music.

[Infernal Affair]

I've grown up with hip hop. It was the first genre of music I associated myself with and I was one of the few kids in junior high that would watch BET all the time, especially the Top 10 Rapdown. This was when house and techno were more popular. There was only one other kid at the time who I thought liked rap as much as I did, but she wouldn't give me the time of day because I didn't wear Cross Colours or any "hip hop garb."

Most people would label me more as a rock person since I was really into the punk scene in high school, but I still love hip-hop and all elements. I still love turntablism, graffiti art, break dancing, rapping, etc. even though I'm terrible at all of these.

I love the production aspect of hip-hop, and I still think a great producer can make a bad MC good. Dre, Timbaland, Nujabes, Domino, RZA, Wyclef, JD, Pete Rock, Jazzy Jeff, Madlib, J Dilla, Dan the Automator, Prince Paul, Dangermouse, etc. There's SO MANY great producers out there. Yet to most people they are "just sampling." For those people, I suggest taking a look at what they actually sampled from using these sites:

http://www.whosampled.com/
http://the-breaks.com/

A lot of it is rather surprising.

[Lex]

Great thread.

I play a lot of hip hop in NYC, have worked with Talib Kweli and Idle Warship among others. We do a weekly hip hop jam in the East Village if anyone's ever in town.

Had the pleasure of opening for Common/Q-Tip/The Roots. This is the stuff to listen to. FORGET Lil Wayne. NOT hip hop.

Check out Q-Tip's "The Renaissance". The bass playing on ManWomanBoogie is OFF the hook. Of course anything by Tribe is worth checking out.

@DoubleAgent... The Peas first albums were killer (remember Joints & Jam?)... what the hell happened (Fergie?).

Check out Pino's playing with D'Angelo and Erykah Badu (crossing into R&B territory I know). Unbelievable.

Adam Blackstone is another bassist to look out for. I think he's been discussed around this forum before.

HUB used to kill it in The Roots, but I gotta tell you... Owen Biddle is a BEAST. Check his stuff out... he produced/played some tracks on Game Theory.

And, love him or hate him... Jay Z has the best beats in the genre. Some really dope bass playing on those older albums (check out "All I Need").

@Jared Lash — QUANNUM is awesome. I loved the Spectrum album. The Stereo MCs remix of "I Changed My Mind" is killing.

Great topic. Hip Hop bass playing is underrated... but it really takes a lot of discipline and thought about timing/space/tone. I've learned more from playing hip hop than other genres. When you play it in the improvisational sense (i.e. live band, freestyling MCs) then it really is the 'jazz' of the modern world. Very creative.

Peace

Lex

[bass player 48]

I’m pretty ignorant when it comes to hip hop, really… I’ve gone through several “phases” with hip hop appreciation though. When I was a kid and MTV was breaking out with “Yo MTV raps” I was onboard for sure and I had cassettes tapes of Beasties Boys (License to Ill) and Run DMC (tougher than Leather). Later, in high school, I was diggin NWA and Easy E’s solo album (think it was called Easy Does It)… lost track of rap before the Chronic ever came along… I had NO idea at the time how much was sampled (as a 10 year old kid in ’84 I didn’t even catch all of the Led Zeppelin drum beats on Lic to Ill)

ANYWAY – Just last weekend my brother in law was trying to turn me onto some music I wasn’t aware of. He played a bunch of Gnarls Barkley (on Youtube – Live from the Abbey Road) and to me – some of it was rock, some of it was funk, and some of it was hip hop. (but I’m not sure… ) If that is in fact hip hop – it’s more along the lines of the type I like these days. (a band playing instruments – doing hip hop with a strong funk influence)

I could be wrong, because I don’t know much about the genre, but to me – this cut is hip hop (actually, I think I said it’s what hip hop SHOULD BE) ...whatever it is, it makes me want more stuff like it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb1gM_Cr-iE

Does that count as hip hop? I don’t think there’s any rapping over somebody else’s song going on there.

[Lex]

Mmm... I'm not really feeling that as Hip Hop... it's got an old school R&B feel to it.

This is more like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRrM6tfOHds


Really if you want to see people playing live music with a strong funk/r&b influence then check The Roots... they are pretty much the best in the business right now.

Also "Dave Chapelle's Block Party" DVD will give you a GREAT introduction.

Lex

[bass player 48]

Originally Posted by Lex

Mmm... I'm not really feeling that as Hip Hop... it's got an old school R&B feel to it.

This is more like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRrM6tfOHds

Uh Oh... I was afraid of that. I guess I really don't know what hip hop is anymore LOL. Maybe I need to check out more old school R&B.

I did check the link you posted... not my thing, but I can see they have talent. Thanks for that.

HOW about: The Flow Bots - Handle Bars ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQltWjngids
My kid turned me on to that tune, and I dig it, and in my mind it's hip hop... but I don't know for sure. Sorry if I sound really ignorant - I am mostly ignorant of the hip hop genre and want to learn more about it to sort what I do and don't like. (I like talking the most about the stuff I know the least about... it's all about learning)



EDIT - BTW, I'll check out some Roots for sure... maybe put that DVD on my x-mas list. I've never heard the Roots or watched any Dave Chapelle (I do know he's a comedian though) so both would be new to me - thanks for the recomends!

[Lex]

You're not ignorant at all... in fact Gnarls Barkley are often categorized as hip hop... just that particular cut doesn't have hip hop flavor to it.

Flobots does fit the mold however. Definitely got a newer sound to it.

The link I posted is A Tribe Called Quest. Classic hip hop.

If you're looking at DVDs, the Block Party has cuts from Blackstar, Common, Big Daddy Kane as well as Lauryn Hill.

Speaking of which, The Fugees are worth checking too. And Lauryn Hill's solo effort "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill" is a classic.

[hover]

Dilla, Madlib, Talib, Common, J5, just about anything off Stone's Throw...such a wealth of interesting hip hop out there...from found sound to sample to real instruments, anything that goes against the "subs, dubs and chains" posturing in the mainstream I can get into.

I always wanted to get some sort of hip hop type of thing going, just to back mc's with good organic beats and grooves.

I know a few really good DJ's...the best of which being DJ Shame (Scott D.) of vinyl re-animators fame, who unfortunately for my scene just relocated to the ATL to get back in the game. I had always wished to work with him more...

[Lex]

@Hover, where are you based?

[hover]

Lex, Central MA.

[your idol]

Originally Posted by TIMD

My favorite sample off that album was Leon Haywoods I Wanta Do Something Freaky To You, killer bass line.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzUBh1eK2kE
.

great cut..great album! im a digger. i move around alot and require SEVERAL friends to haul the vinyl. its a sick obsession but i scour the earth looking for unopened copies of "come back charleston blue" and james carr 7"s

dre's raps never relly set me on my ear but his taste in music is A+ and that album showcased it.

[ugly_bassplayer]

Finally a HIPHOP thread!!!!
I'm a huge hiphop fan. Can't wait to see where this goes.

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