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  #81  
Old 01-24-2013, 12:03 AM
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  #82  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ggoat!!! View Post
just a hunch, but i actually think jeff would get a kick out of that
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  #83  
Old 01-24-2013, 07:33 AM
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He needs a fearful.
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  #84  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:27 AM
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Most of this stuff has been reconciled by those involved. but it does highlight how learning to use the web is not the same as a classroom.
After four years they have all learned more about "this new media" outlet.
On the web what Jeff says or does can be on the lap of the person he criticises, or on the lap of someone who knows more on the subject than Jeff, so he will find that after a statement about the music education in some place or country being bad, he will meet someone from that music scene on-line to put him right....but he will still argue his point even though he has no real practical experience of it.

Jeff is cool though, get past the attitude, and is getting better with teaching and being on-line because whether he likes it or not, in the classroom he is in charge, its his class and those in there have taken the time and trouble to attend with the shared attitude to learn...plus the added incentive of they have paid.

In Jeffs early dealing with other players and the web, he did not know the golden rule which is ,treat everyone as having the same knowledge as you...till you learn different.

So Jeff would make claims, draw conclussions, cite info he thinks as valid as facts etc, o just run into brick walls when it come back to him to clarify what he is saying.
We have all experienced this and we all learn to deal with the web as a big open place with ideas, not absolutes.
You are pretty sure that is you make a reference as an absolute, then someone will post it being used in the opposite way....can't do that, no one does this....you will find out you can and people do.

In my school teacher could be hard nosed, bust your balls, push you to limits because it was their class, we coud not leave, we had no choice but to be there.
The same with private teaching you are paying to be taught, and so long as you are you wear the teachers attitude as "................. but they are a good person once you get to know them" sort of statement, that familiar feeling that develops between you, cannot happen on-line as easy.

From musicians to sportsmen, politicians to well a lot of ordinary people on You Tube, the web has all caught us out, so we have learned to modify how we interact with it and those that use it.....those that have not will always be on You Tube in some form or another.

Jeff is cool, but he will alway get better results being sweet that he does being sour.
  #85  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Fergie Fulton View Post
We have all experienced this and we all learn to deal with the web as a big open place with ideas, not absolutes.
You are pretty sure that is you make a reference as an absolute, then someone will post it being used in the opposite way....can't do that, no one does this....you will find out you can and people do.
This is a good point (in general, not just in the context of the discussion concerning Jeff Berlin). I can't say I agree with everything Jeff has said regarding certain teaching approaches/players. Some of his comments are downright offensive or outright illogical. However, I will always appreciate - and respect - his dedication and passion where bass and the teaching of music is concerned.
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  #86  
Old 01-24-2013, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by bass12 View Post
Jeff Berlin might be a lot of things but, based on what I've heard, "groove impaired" is not one of them.
That's just one of those people that thinks groove is inversely proportional to the amount of notes played


I'd love to still have him on here to debate with. What about the people who have no access to a drummer, isn't a nome a perfect reference? I'm sure Jeff was born with near flawless timing (it happens).
  #87  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:09 AM
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That's just one of those people that thinks groove is inversely proportional to the amount of notes played


I'd love to still have him on here to debate with. What about the people who have no access to a drummer, isn't a nome a perfect reference? I'm sure Jeff was born with near flawless timing (it happens).
Groove is different depending on the music being played ... and as far as I know, people who refer to "groove" talk about some loose rythm so someone could say they have very bad timing but since it is the case of everyone in the bad it is ok to play being the beat ... so in a classical point of view ... they are very bad musician. In jazz, the swing isn't the same thing because two 8th feel like a triplet of a quarter with a 8th so it is still perfectly in time and right on top of the beat.

Jeff is classically trained so he play direct on top of the beat like it is the case in classical music and same thing in the Metal universe.

Also in classical music your reference is the conductor if you are playing in a orchestra if you are in a smaller ensemble like a quatuor there is no reference ... they are just that good. And the thing is, the tempo may vary a lot with a conductor if he wants a ritardanto or something like that but even with something like that they still play right on top of the beat, never drag or speed up.
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  #88  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Munjibunga View Post
You don't think Patitucci lifts stuff from other musicians? Every musician does it.
I think he is inspired by other musician but stealing lick and stuff like that, nah I don't think so. People who steal lick or other stuff do it too clearly.
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  #89  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:15 AM
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patitucci has transcribed extensively and recommends it to his students very often. although i dont think what he transcribed is the crap that you refer to above (unless you consider guys like dexter gordon, brecker, wes, pettiford and ray crap.)
This is perfectly OK but what I was thinking is more like stealing a riff from Iron Maiden or Metallica and playing it exactly over the same chords progression. This is really stupid to do and it may come often. Even in jazz you can sometimes caught someone using the same lick over the same type of chords as someone else. I just think it is weak. Yes to being inspired but man, develop your own ideas !
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  #90  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:16 AM
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Berlin is like playing with yourself with the Golf Channel as a backdrop..

Gets the job done but just so, so lame..
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  #91  
Old 01-25-2013, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa View Post
This is perfectly OK but what I was thinking is more like stealing a riff from Iron Maiden or Metallica and playing it exactly over the same chords progression. This is really stupid to do and it may come often. Even in jazz you can sometimes caught someone using the same lick over the same type of chords as someone else. I just think it is weak. Yes to being inspired but man, develop your own ideas !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krDxhnaKD7Q
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  #92  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:36 AM
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  #93  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:44 AM
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Too much!
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  #94  
Old 01-25-2013, 08:57 AM
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Is there ever a good reason to get personal about it?

I dunno, it seems to me that one can discuss philosophies, points of view, etc. and restrict any disagreements to the philosophies, points of view, etc. themselves, rather than digress into calling anyone out personally.

You'd be amazed how often this can be successfully accomplished discussing any number of sensitive subjects.

IMHO, the key is to always respect another person's right to believe something different than you do, and to never forget that. In fact, celebrate that we live in such a wonderful diverse world that you can learn something from people who hold differing points of view. It's a really beautiful thing IMHO.

You don't dig what another player is about? Don't listen to them.

You don't dig the way the world is headed? Try to make a difference in your sphere of influence.

Light candles instead of cursing the darkness.

Peace.
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  #95  
Old 01-25-2013, 09:06 AM
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I don't have problem with Jeff Berlin. He has a lot of great things on YouTube. His videos are well thought out, simply explained. He goes to the camera prepared and it very articulate. And many of those attributes are rare on YouTube.

He knows his stuff. But Jeff is in an environment that puts him totally in charge of people who have already made the choice to be there and listen to him. This has affected his delivery. He has worked very, very hard on developing his considerable talent and is out of a bit out of touch with some of the hurdles that face many people who are attempting music on a somewhat part-time basis.
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  #96  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:10 AM
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holy ... thank for sharing
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  #97  
Old 01-25-2013, 11:21 AM
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The Bush administration called. They want their internet flame war back.
  #98  
Old 02-06-2013, 04:23 AM
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The Bush administration called. They want their internet flame war back.
Ba doo be doo ba doo ba dee!
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