Thinking of starting a bass design company/website. I want/need your input/opinions.

[Tbirdbassist]

I've been drawing and designing basses to scale on graph paper (4 boxes to an inch for the most part) for atleast 2-3 years now. Mainly to past time during class or when I was bored/needed something to do etc...

Now after being a member here I've realized that the custom bass market is pretty big and maybe I could somehow profit by selling my designs to people, or drawing things up for people to take to a luthier, etc. I have atleast 50 or so different body shapes, single cut/double cut. None are really "Traditional" and are I'd say pretty modern looking.

I'm 16 (17 in late November), still in HS and have little source of income and live in NYC so getting a job, part time or not, is very difficultso I was thinking that maybe trying this would help my financial troubles .

A good friend of mine is going to be sending me AutoCad, which is mainly an Architectural and Engineering design program. Bud Lecompte's uses CAD to designs his basses as far as I know and once I get a hang of that I would make my designs "digital". And possibly Photoshop them to have woods/tops/etc. I wouls still though, have hand drawing be my main thing.


My question to you, my fellow Tber's is...

-Would you pay to have someone design a bass for you or choose a design you already provided for you that isn't available already by existing Custom bass companies?

-Do you think that this is a good idea?

-Do you think this is a good idea and I would profit fairly well from it?

-Do you think it's a good idea, but since quite a few luthiers already do "custom shapes" and paying someone seperate would be redundant?

-Do you think it's a dumb idea/dumb way to make money, pointless?



I've been having doubts about this here and there as I've become more and more serious about making a company/website over the past month or so. I would need to get my designs copyrighted/patented (which one?), but I have no idea how much that would cost me.

I know the positive thing about doing this would be me getting my work put out there and obviously getting paid to do something I like. I don't expect this to bring in heaps and loads of cash, extra income here and there is a big plus. Especially when you're a musician. I would hopefully later in my life, start building basses, but right now that is only a thought.

So guys, what do you think?

(Why the hell do big thoughts always come up in the we hours of the morning? It's 3:08 here...)

[spudmaster34]

I think you will have trouble gettting your name out there, who will decide to go search the internet randomly to find a design for their next custom bass... Not many people. What if you contacted a few custom luthiers, they might be willing to hire you as a designer.

[Sonic_Death]

Many people will contact luthiers and if they do not already have a design that they made themselves, will talk to the luthier and they will collaborate to make one. It will be very tough to not only get your name out there, but be able to be reputable enough to sell your designs.

When most people get custom basses made, they already have an idea of what they want it to look like, what woods, electronics, etc. Plus the luthier must be willing to use the design that you present.

IMO, if you are looking for a job or way to make money, I'd look for other ways. I am not telling you to give up or anything though, because you can surely go for it.

In the future, if you ever want to become a luthier, then you can make your designs and be able to sell them and make a nice amount of money if people like them.

[IanStephenson]

I think you need to actually figure out how these bass are going to GET MADE. If I buy you design I've still got a LOAD of work done to get it made - YOU need to help me through that process.

A big part of the process of having something custom made is sitting down with the designer and seeing your dream appear on paper. You seem to have a design process which has all the hassle of custom, with none of the fun.

Even if someone loved your design, they've still got to find someone to MAKE it, and at that point they'll start making changes. I guess most people go to a luthier and say "I want this feature from this design, and this from this design... etc". At that point MAYBE it's not your design - look at the nightmare that even the big companies get into defending their designs (eg gibson vs prs). I suspect people would look at your designs, take what they like and get someone to build them without paying you (see downloading mp3 thread - after all you've still GOT the designs to they're not stealing right?).

Also it's one thing to draw something on paper, but what does it PLAY like? Does it balance well, is it comfortable, does it SOUND good? These are things that a lutheir learns by building instruments and discovering they don't work like he thought they would. If I buy your design and get it built and it sucks I'M out of pocket for your learning experience, and as its web based you probably never even play the instrument yourself, so don't get to learn anything.

Bottom line - if you want to do this then you should persue it, but you need to BUILD them. Is there any reason (other than lack of experience) you don't canr start to MAKE them now? You're only 16 so you've plenty of time to learn - take some classes in woodworking, and do some building.

If people see your designs ON STAGE at gigs, and they look cool, and sound good, then they'll take an interest.

Ian

ps you can only patent a device for doing something, so if you develop (for example) a new design for tuning an instruement you can patent it, but you can't patent an aesthetic design. In anycase patents cost more money that you're likely to ever make from something like this (thousands of dollars). You want copyright - you have that automatically because you created them. You can (depending on local laws) register designs for copyright purposes which helps if you need to defend them, but legally you already have copyright.

[Chunk-O-Funk]

I will have to agree with IanStephenson.

Designing a bass is only the beginning process of building a bass. The design more than likely will change somewhat once it is getting built. You would have to design and then make a prototype to make sure everything will work.

One other problem I see. Who will build them? I think it would be very limited. Most custom builders have their own design and use certain components that make up their signature when making an instrument. Again, your design would be compromised.


BUT, you know something? I could be totaly wrong. All great things come from an idea.

[morf]

Associate with a builder and get like a 5% commission on basses you've designed and he's built (you bring him clients, he gives you comission and builds your designs). Something like that, guess it could work.

How about posting some designs so we can see what you come up with?

[superbassman2000]

i think if you really want this to work, you will not only design them, but build them as well...imagine an artist. the painting is his creation, and he probably doesn't allow someone to do the pencil sketch before (s)he starts the painting...well, technically thats happened, but no big-named painter has ever done a color-by-number.

i think you should design and build your basses

plus, i think that the majority of people are happy with the designs that the luthiers do anyways, so i am not sure how big of a market there is for your idea...maybe another idea is to sell your designs to luthiers...of course they might just take a look at it, reject it, and then design one similar to yours, and claim they never met you

i say build your designs too

[Tbirdbassist]

Thanks for your input so far guys.


I wouldn't just sell the designs and be gojne with it. I would work with the customer/builder to make it work if it, on paper, doesn't look like it would. I would wantg to help in the process because I'm interested in bass building myself.

I do know a lot of custom builders have their own designs but some also are open to customer idea's. I know Stambaugh, Micheal Dolan and a few others are open. Jack Read's work was almost all custom designs, unfortunately he doesn't make basses anymore.

I'll get some of these designs up shortly, I jsut have to set up my scanner and get them uploaded to photobucket. I, like I said, have a lot of them.

And believe me I want to build my designs, but I don't have the fund or really the time now to do so. Maybe next summer I'll have money saved to build my own bass, I don't know. All in time I guess, but I definitely wan't to have these built.

Please, more feedback!

[thebassclef]

This is a little Different, But kinda the same.

I Design flash art for tattoos. I Have worked with a couple of local tattoo artists, and have been comisioned for some work, but in order for me to actually make a living at it, it was suggested that I learn to actually do the tattoos.

Designing a bass is about the same. You'll probably work with a couple of luthiers, but in order to make money at it, learn how to build the bass.

[Tbirdbassist]

I don't plan on making a living at designing them. I just thought that I may possibly be able to make some extra money now by selling some of my designs. I'll be a senior in September so building anything is out of the question for next 10 months.

[trog]

I can't see it being a huge business, but it would require very little monetary investment on your part - so why not go for it?

[IanStephenson]

Originally Posted by Tbirdbassist

And believe me I want to build my designs, but I don't have the fund or really the time now to do so. Maybe next summer I'll have money saved to build my own bass, I don't know. All in time I guess, but I definitely wan't to have these built.

Building doesn't have to be difficult or expensive - sure you WANT the best and most expensive parts, but right now you're starting out, and at the bottom of the learning (and earning) curve, so there's no point shoping fo boutique parts when until you're ready for them. You can pick up most of the parts you need pretty cheaply and start experimenting - most of your early attempts aren't going to work out so you can build them, then strip them for parts for the next one.

If you're happy to use a standard neck (which is by FAR the hardest part) then you can pick up a couple of scrap basses from pawn shops or ebay. Take off the neck, and strip the body for parts (you can even resell the body!). To make a new body (he bit you're probably interested in) you just need some wood, and a router, and you're away. The results won't be great, but you'll have a blast, learn tons, and actually see one of your designs FOR REAL.

A lot of projects end up on ebay half completed, and can be a bargain. Last year I picked up an epiphone SG that had been taken apart, reprayed, and filled/re-routed for $50. I spend another $30 on hardware, added a pickup I had lying around, and produced a cool looking guitar - maybe not GREAT, but pretty decent for not much money, and it's cool to have something unique.

Ian

[Geoff St. Germaine]

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

Building doesn't have to be difficult or expensive - sure you WANT the best and most expensive parts, but right now you're starting out, and at the bottom of the learning (and earning) curve, so there's no point shoping fo boutique parts when until you're ready for them. You can pick up most of the parts you need pretty cheaply and start experimenting - most of your early attempts aren't going to work out so you can build them, then strip them for parts for the next one.

If you're happy to use a standard neck (which is by FAR the hardest part) then you can pick up a couple of scrap basses from pawn shops or ebay. Take off the neck, and strip the body for parts (you can even resell the body!). To make a new body (he bit you're probably interested in) you just need some wood, and a router, and you're away. The results won't be great, but you'll have a blast, learn tons, and actually see one of your designs FOR REAL.

A lot of projects end up on ebay half completed, and can be a bargain. Last year I picked up an epiphone SG that had been taken apart, reprayed, and filled/re-routed for $50. I spend another $30 on hardware, added a pickup I had lying around, and produced a cool looking guitar - maybe not GREAT, but pretty decent for not much money, and it's cool to have something unique.

Ian

I'm going to disagree with you. In a lot of cases the start up cost of getting a lot of the tools needed to start building basses will far outweigh the cost of buying everything you need to build a bass. This obviously depends on what tools are available to a person and how finished they purchase the components, but IME when a person just adds up what the components cost to start building their first bass they are severely underestimating what it is going to cost to get to the finished bass. Lets take my last bass, for instance. It cost probably $1000 to build, all using top end components (nordstrand pickups, aguilar preamp, ETS bridge, sperzel tuners, curly bubinga top/back/fretboard, wenge/maple neck, white korina body). The cost of tools was probably close to that even though I had access to all of the power tools that I needed were available in my friend's shop.

Also, I have to ask how in depth you are planning to design these basses. Will this be a fully thought out model that I will only need to buy wood for and then cut to specified size or will it just be a body/headstock outline?

[Tbirdbassist]

I would work with the person to design a headstock they would like if they don't like what I have to offer. I have two or three different headstock designs.

And yes, these are fully thought out designs. All to scale and I would hope that only drawing them full scale onto wood, would be all that is needed. I draw them with hardware and pickups so they don't look bland ofcourse and give idea's of what it would look like.

[budman]

Keep drawing. keep sketching if you have the ideas. My notebooks and book covers where covered with drawings of guitars and basses when I was in high school. The only guy I know who has done any professional design work for bass manufactureres and stopped there without ever actually building himself is Fred Hodshon. He might the guy to talk to.