Thoughts about how much gigs pay

[geoffkhan]

Gigs around my area have really not been paying much lately, so I've been thinking about the matter.

Shouldn't playing music at venues be like food catering services? Food catering services have to prepare food beforehand, buy equipment, etc. Musicians have to prepare their songs beforehand (you have to add the rehearsal factor in), buy musical equipment (instruments, PA system, etc. can get pricey as you know!), etc. There is not all that much difference between a gigging band and a food catering service.

Or at least there shouldn't be.

Lately I've been playing those ordinary $30 a night gigs. Granted, there are those occasional $200-250 gigs, but in general I've found most of the gigs to pay around $20-60. It's always funny when they say "the gig pays $150", and then I think, well that's not so bad, it looks like the economy is picking up! Oh what's that, $150 for the entire band? It's a good thing I'm into music tech (computer music, so making music software, music for games and films, etc.), otherwise a career in music might not be all that promising.

Food catering services have it better. Who knows, they are probably suffering from the same 9/11 economical crisis as we are, but they still get paid a lot more than us, even. They usually earn anything from $10-$50 for each person they serve at the venue/event. They'll even have a minimum, so they're garanteed above a certain price.

I can't wait until more musicians catch on and start acting as professional as these food catering services.

Just some thoughts--I do know that some people make a decent living off gigging (and perhaps a combination including teaching/part-time job). I guess what is the most annoying to me is musicians who under-price themselves. I've had gigs taken from me (as well many other musicians I know) by garage bands who under-price themselves and effectively "steal" gigs. Come on guys, I know playing is fun and all that, but some people are trying to actually earn a living here.

[Low E Louie]

Interesting. Well, this summer you could have an extra band member sell hamburgers in connection with your gigs and earn more money.

[cheezewiz]

I'm certainly no pro, and play mostly for fun, but I sure don't do a gig where I'm not pocketing at least $100. I can't imagine doing a gig for $150 for the entire band.

[gkbass13]

gigs in ym area generally pay arund 5-8hundred for the band...with my 6 pice groupe thats atleast in the 100 per member ball park...id do it for free though:-P

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by Low E Louie

Interesting. Well, this summer you could have an extra band member sell hamburgers in connection with your gigs and earn more money.

You just might be onto something. Actually, how about musicians teaming up with food catering services?

If it's a restaurant/bar gig rather than an actual event, and considering the venue generally expects you to bring all the people, you have to think, "what will it take to get those people away from the TV and to the gig?" One solution I have thought of is to make it as much of a social occasion between the people as possible. They're not solely there to see the band play (although it'd be great if you were THAT well-known as that would be the attitude), but socialize, etc. Accommodate and encourage that as much as possible. I've also found that if you play regularly, that's a great way to build bigger and bigger audiences. Same time same place next week is easy to remember, and if they liked the music and had a good time, chances are that next week they'll be back, even better, with friends.

Anyways, just more random thoughts.

[kherber]

Originally Posted by geoffkhan

I can't wait until more musicians catch on and start acting as professional as these food catering services.

Just some thoughts--I do know that some people make a decent living off gigging (and perhaps a combination including teaching/part-time job). I guess what is the most annoying to me is musicians who under-price themselves. I've had gigs taken from me (as well many other musicians I know) by garage bands who under-price themselves and effectively "steal" gigs. Come on guys, I know playing is fun and all that, but some people are trying to actually earn a living here.

It's the nature of this business: supply and demand, and all that. A lot of people want to be musicians--more than there are available gigs. It looks like a fun job, so lots of people want to do it, and they'll do it cheap just to get a chance. I'm also a writer and novelist, and that business is the same way. Lots of people want to be writers, so publishers feel free to underpay them, and treat them like dirt to boot.

Myself, I usually make $90 to $130 on most of my gigs. But if someone calls me up to sub on a weeknight when I'm not doing anything anyway, I'll go a few bucks cheaper. I'd rather play and be paid then sit home and watch Survivor.

In fact, I guess I'll do almost anything to avoid the dreaded and dreadful "day job".

Doc

[pointbass]

Wait until you get to be an old bastid like me and you realize that the gig money is still the same as it was 35 years ago

In the late '60's and early '70's average NYC/Philly corridor gigs paid $75-$100 a night, maybe as little as $50 during mid-week. But that was 35-40 years ago and $100 went a lot further then.

Fast forward to 2006, the gig I played last weekend paid $225 (outdoor festival), but the gig before that (small, stinky jazz club) paid $75, same friggin' money as 1968 .....

[kherber]

Originally Posted by pointbass

Wait until you get to be an old bastid like me and you realize that the gig money is still the same as it was 35 years ago

Absolutely. I'm making what seems like more than 1975 but the cost of living has doubled, tripled, or more. Now, with gas prices going through the roof, it's even worse.

"You don't have to suffer to be an artist. Just become an artist, and soon you'll be suffering plenty."

Doc

[MJ5150]

I agree with Cheeze on this.

The food caterers have it right. They have set prices, and they don't budge. I gaurantee you that if one or two caterers moved into your town and did events for $4 per person, the price for catering would come down across the board.

Until bands start refusing to play for $150 a night, it is always going to be that way.

-Mike

[Eric Moesle]

In the late 80's early 90's, the Cleveland live music scene was virtually destroyed when a bunch of "hack" bands emerged willing to play for peanuts just to play. I used to make over $200 a guy AFTER PA rental expenses back then.

The cheap, hack bands would bring lots of friends for their one show per month, and the bars stopped paying for quality bands. This worked for the bars for awhile, then the general public virtually stopped coming out to see a live band because "live bands always sucked". Things have turned around a bit in the past several years, but for awhile NOBODY wanted to go see a live band in that town.

We all have to keep the quality up, else the market dries up.

[kherber]

Originally Posted by Eric Moesle

The cheap, hack bands would bring lots of friends for their one show per month, and the bars stopped paying for quality bands.

I book our band from Orlando to Tampa, and up and down the Gulf Coast. A lot of the areas are tourist and snow bird driven, and the pay is reasonable.

But here in Lakeland I can't find a venue for reasons similar to what Eric is saying. There's a ton of wannabe "Indie" bands willing to play once a month for the door, and make a big deal of inviting all their friends down. Sometimes two or three bands play in a single night, because none of them have enough material to play a whole gig. Needless to say, people go home with $10 or $15 in their pocket.

Consequently, the clubs are spoiled. They're almost shocked when I explain to them we don't play for anything but a guarantee.

But there's always been a "devil", eh? Deejays, karaoke...

Doc

[guy n. cognito]

My new band is a cover band playing surburban restaurants and private parties. They are getting between $550-750 for bar gigs and at least $900 for private parties. When I talk about private parties, we're not talking about weddings and corporate events, but rather birthday and neighborhood parties.

[glivanos]

Originally Posted by pointbass

Wait until you get to be an old bastid like me and you realize that the gig money is still the same as it was 35 years ago

In the late '60's and early '70's average NYC/Philly corridor gigs paid $75-$100 a night, maybe as little as $50 during mid-week. But that was 35-40 years ago and $100 went a lot further then.

Fast forward to 2006, the gig I played last weekend paid $225 (outdoor festival), but the gig before that (small, stinky jazz club) paid $75, same friggin' money as 1968 .....

I'll take the $75 jazz gig if you don't want it

[tZer]

There is a relationship to what your band's goals are and what you are willing to play for. If you are an original band trying to get attention, you are probably happy if your expenses get covered. I know that when we were doing the original thing our expenses included rehearsal space, the cost of the EP (5-song CD) we recorded and sold at shows, gas, strings, beer... all our earnings went right back into our expenses so we could keep on keepin' on.

Now the cover thing is quite different - if are out there doing the cover thing and you are NOT getting paid, I would have to guess you are either independently wealthy and don't need the dough or you are retahded .... JK!!! - (very non-PC of me there... )

But if you are in the cover band bar scene you should be making far more then $150/gig.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by pointbass

Wait until you get to be an old bastid like me and you realize that the gig money is still the same as it was 35 years ago

In the late '60's and early '70's average NYC/Philly corridor gigs paid $75-$100 a night, maybe as little as $50 during mid-week. But that was 35-40 years ago and $100 went a lot further then.

Fast forward to 2006, the gig I played last weekend paid $225 (outdoor festival), but the gig before that (small, stinky jazz club) paid $75, same friggin' money as 1968 .....

+1 It's literally impossible IMO to make a living being a 'side man' at this point. While my pay is quite good per gig at the moment, it's only because I play the high end corporate private thing, and even that pay scale has fallen FAR behind inflation over the last 25 years.

I strongly advise young players, even very good ones, not to attend music school or plan on playing for a living into middle age. It's much better to get good private instruction, play all the gigs you can, and get a business degree .... I'm not kidding!

[geoffkhan]

Originally Posted by MJ5150

I agree with Cheeze on this.

The food caterers have it right. They have set prices, and they don't budge. I gaurantee you that if one or two caterers moved into your town and did events for $4 per person, the price for catering would come down across the board.

Until bands start refusing to play for $150 a night, it is always going to be that way.

-Mike

Great post!

The tricky thing is that music can be both a job and just a hobby. Most of the musicians I know who underprice themselves already are well-off with their day job, so they don't care how much they make at the gig. Nothing wrong with that, but they shouldn't be the ones negotiating the price.

I've learned that from all the bars/restaurants in my area, (looking at the tax records) I can expect to be paid $37-$60. Not happening. And yet a mere block party last weekend paid $100 each.

On the other hand, last summer I played a gig with a roadhouse blues band (I'm a jazz/funk keyboardist, so that was out of the norm, but fun) at a restaurant/bar. The place was packed, and I walked out with $105. What amazed me was this was on a Tuesday evening... :P

With another band we used to (until we got occupied recording our big album) play a lot of art & wine festivals. It was usually at least $200 per person for playing 45-60 minutes. Much better, even when you take driving time, etc. into account.

[Pajama_Bottoms]

Originally Posted by geoffkhan

Food catering services have it better. Who knows, they are probably suffering from the same 9/11 economical crisis as we are, but they still get paid a lot more than us, even. They usually earn anything from $10-$50 for each person they serve at the venue/event. They'll even have a minimum, so they're garanteed above a certain price.

I can't wait until more musicians catch on and start acting as professional as these food catering services.

But the quality of catered food in comparison to its alternatives (stack of pizzas, etc.) is easily apparent to most people. The quality of live music isn't. A significant amount of the club- and bar-going population would prefer pre-recorded music just because it's exactly the same as every other time they've heard it. They're not wanting a uniquely prepared platter that may be different each time they have it, they want (to continue with the food->music metaphor) to suck on a can of Cheeze Whiz and wash it down with a Diet Coke.

[kid_squanto]

It could possibly be the area you're living in? I'm 16 and I make between $30-$40 an hour with my jazz trio. I couldn't imagine what a "professional" trio would be able to charge in my area...

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by geoffkhan

Shouldn't playing music at venues be like food catering services? Food catering services have to prepare food beforehand, buy equipment, etc. Musicians have to prepare their songs beforehand (you have to add the rehearsal factor in), buy musical equipment (instruments, PA system, etc. can get pricey as you know!), etc. There is not all that much difference between a gigging band and a food catering service.

I guess what is the most annoying to me is musicians who under-price themselves. I've had gigs taken from me (as well many other musicians I know) by garage bands who under-price themselves and effectively "steal" gigs. Come on guys, I know playing is fun and all that, but some people are trying to actually earn a living here.

I agree. Those bands that "play for beer" aren't doing themselves or anyonte else any fvaors.

[cheezewiz]

Ahh..the "hack band" syndrome. There was a local bar in my town, just a few blocks from my house, that was the "mecca" for live bands. Now it didn't pay GREAT, and it wasn't a HUGE venue, but they had quality live bands, EVERY weekend. I played in several different bands there, and always had a great time. It was a nice crowd, usually mostly 25-45 year old, etc.

Enter hack band. A group of 18 year olds, in their first gigging band. Not enough songs to play a whole night. The bar wasn't doing fantastic on Friday nights, although Saturdays were always packed. Said hack band convinces the owner to let them play on Friday night for the door. They bring all their friends, who of course, can only drink pop all night long, but....there are a lot of them there. Pretty soon, this band is playing almost every Friday night, for the door. The local "real bands" are now faced with having to play one nighters there, instead of both Friday Saturday. The owner gets spoiled, and now decides he can't pay his usual rate, even for one nighters anymore, thanks to said local hack kiddie band willing to play
for the door. The bar starts to lose the "adult" crowd, because no one over the age of 19 wants to see said hack band.

Live music is eventually phased out completely. The bar is now a crappy college bar, where no one over the age 20 even thinks about going. They've been busted for underage sales NUMEROUS times. I'm sure the owner is now happy (NOT!) with his decision to go with the hacks.