Is too much expected of musicians nowadays?

Nyarlathotep · #1 05-04-2006, 04:26 PM

I was thinking this when looking through the New Tool! thread. It seems as if, unless band X comes up with some new "gimmic" sound, they're shoved aside by the general public.

This seems especially true with guitarists. Every mag you pick up has Joe Satriani, or some other "amazing" solo player on the front cover. Inside they tell you that you suck cus you can't play at 1 million miles an hour!

Is it just me?

EDIT: Poll Added

Platypus_Of_420 · #2 05-04-2006, 04:28 PM

maybe.
but true musicians will stay true to themselves and what they wanna play no matter what it is and if the public likes it or not.

DaftCat · #3 05-04-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHarted

Is it just me?

No but consider musicians pick stuff apart and the general listening public doesn't.

In the end it matters little what musicians think. It is what the public thinks that matters more.

I may get flamed and questioned for that last paragraph but I hope I got my point across.

janek65 · #4 05-04-2006, 04:33 PM

REALLY original musicians have only rarely been measured by the number of notes a minute they play. It does seem however, that many notes sell magazines

Basshole · #5 05-04-2006, 04:38 PM

Are you nuts?

Everything is pitch-corrected, dynamics compressed, and time aligned.

Nobody knows how to sing or play anymore.

Too much? Bah. Too little is even "REQUIRED" to be a musician anymore.

IanStephenson · #6 05-04-2006, 05:21 PM

You don't make sense - you say you need a new gimmick, then say Satriani gets too much attention - I've got satriani albums on vinyl that are 20 years old! He may have got famous for being flash, but he's stayed their by being good. The famous "lead" players Hendrix, Van Halen etc are usually ACTUALLY great rythmn players.

And of COURSE the guys on the cover of guitar magazines can play awesomly - thats why they're on the cover. Who do you expect to see on the cover of GPM? "Meet Dave - he knows three chords! Find out his guitar secrets in this months issue"... "Transcribed: Dave's Version of Smoke on the Water, and Tush (solo's not included)".

Ian

mvw356 · #7 05-04-2006, 06:05 PM

i think its the other way around, not much is expected of musicians today. when you look at whats playing on mainstream radio today, i can't remeber one song that stood out where i said 'wow' what a nice guitar/keyboard/bass/drum groove or anything like that. it's all bland and boring to me, because noone mainstream is able to really play their instrument. of course there are exceptions, but generally that is the feeling i have.

**Blackbird** · #8 05-04-2006, 06:12 PM

In the classical world, all musicians are expected to be proficient enough to play anything that's put in front of them. Now there's real pressure. The Jazz world is not that much different, but in some ways the pressure is greater because there's a greater focus on spontaneity.

In Rock, things are much more loose and subjective. It's been said that B.B. King can say more with one note than any Malmsteen-esque wanker. The problem is that in Rock, by and large, consists of poorly educated players playing to poorly educated listeners. The age group of the listeners is a factor here, as well as everything that youth oriented music stands for commercially.

MikeBass · #9 05-04-2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IanStephenson

"Meet Dave - he knows three chords! Find out his guitar secrets in this months issue"... "Transcribed: Dave's Version of Smoke on the Water, and Tush (solo's not included)".

Ian

Jack White and Curt Cobain come to mind real quick.
And I think they made it on the cover more than a few times.

And lets not confuse popularity (in both of the above stated cases) for musicianship.

The talent for writing a hook, or better yet, GETTING LUCKY in the music industry is the case for most of the players on those covers.

An agent sees an opportunity to market a new band (ie. sell records) and does it.

And lets not confuse the facts that without tons and tons of money behind those bands and the industry telling the general public (which includes a lot of "musicians") what they like, you would never hear of them.

I've had the oppourtunity to talk with the number one radio programmer in North America a few years. He sets programming lists for over 1500 radio stations weekly.
Make no mistake about what you think is hot right now. You have no choice. Or at least the general public doesn't.

And I'm not one to yell out conspircy theorys. But the stuff I heard......
Pretty much told me the Rob Thomas was gonna be big and the Britney Spears types were going away. Because they wanted it.
Scarry.
And I asked, wouldn't you keep them around if their records did good? The reply, they need spins or airplay for that to happen, and they're not gonna get it.

So no, not a lot is expected from musicians.

MichaelVee · #10 05-04-2006, 06:50 PM

The big area in which too much is expected of musicians in 2006 is image.

You have to be young, have to have a certain look, have to fit in with the visuals to be selected to be in the bands that make it big. Bassists who are older and don't fit in don't get the best gigs.

That sucks. There are a lot of great players out there who are 30-40+ who aren't getting a passing glance. And obviously that is true on other levels beside the bigtime national levels. Locally, it's also a fact of life.

Discrimination really, truly is a reality for musicians. There aren't any federal equal opportunity / equal employment laws that pertain to our profession.

MikeBass · #11 05-04-2006, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackbird

The age group of the listeners is a factor here, as well as everything that youth oriented music stands for commercially.

The largest segment of CD buying public is 14-18 year old white girls.
A close second is the same age group boys. White again. Who buy more hip-hop CD's than their black counterparts. Like 6 to 1.

Post high school (and not just in collage) boys are next 18-24.

Why do you think groups like BackStreet Boys and not their black counterparts (whom ever that may be-I dunno off hand) sold so many records?
Picture this:
Little 16 year old Jenny (white) goes to the mall with her friends (who is driven their by her mother) and buys a CD and poster of said black group. Good looking guys, soild pop music.
White mom doesn't like little suburban Jenny putting up the poster and this leads to Jenny learning a lesson. (read between the lines here k'?!?) Not that she rips it down, but doesn't directly approve either.
Next she buys a CD and poster of some cute white guys and mom says "Hey Jenny, He's cute!". Approval noticed.
Another lesson learned.

Not that I agree with it, but it's a reality thats taken into account every day.

Sad huh?!?

mark roberts · #12 05-04-2006, 06:57 PM

As far as big-time COMMERCIAL success is concerned...the title of this says it all...sure, there's got to be talent...but, it the money that makes it happen. Plus...you've got to have half-a-chance to fit the physical appearance mold or the politics/money to make up the difference. The right place, the right time, the right people (spelled "connections") making it happen the right way at the right time. Travel around the 'net and you will find talent that can chew up the name-brand and spit them out, but they're not main stream and they wait on tables or serve their bosses to pay the rent. But, there's a drive in an artist that keeps the fire burning against all odds...never give up on that drive. OK, I'm done.

DumbChild · #13 05-04-2006, 07:40 PM

Depends what type of musician ur speaking of. I mean you can get on a front cover because you look cool, even if you only play 3 notes per song. Thats generally bands, i suppose as a solo musician it would be a bit harder.

I suppose much is expected of you if u wish to do it by yourself, but now days to get anywhere in a band all thats expected is you look good and play averagely

superbassman2000 · #14 05-04-2006, 08:35 PM

i don't think the crowds ask a lot, where i am they just want to hear mustang sally and skynrd...mostly freebird

Ray Holt · #15 05-04-2006, 08:44 PM

I think too little is in the mainstream. Like it's been said most of these bands aren't very impressive at all!

As far as professionals, like orchestras/pro jazz bands all that... well I think just as much is expected now as has ever been. They need to be GOOD!

And as far as Joe Satriani goes, while he does do quite a bit of shredding, he's got plenty of songs that have more slow notes than fast licks. And he's the only shredder I enjoy because even when he does shred that's musical too. Plus he's been around forever.. that guy knows what he's doing. I mean the guy TAUGHT Steve Vai and Kirk Hammet

d8g3jdh · #16 05-04-2006, 09:02 PM

Nah, my mom doesn't expect much of anything out of me.

Wait...

ddnidd1 · #17 05-05-2006, 10:58 AM

McDonald's is extremely popular but that doesn't make it great food. Beware of the lowest common denominator. That's usually where the masses are drawn.

JAUQO III-X · #18 05-05-2006, 11:07 AM

I don't think anything is expected of musicians today.

trog · #19 05-05-2006, 01:15 PM

No way. Punk killed all that musicianship nonsense

**Blackbird** · #20 05-05-2006, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeBass

Little 16 year old Jenny (white) goes to the mall with her friends (who is driven their by her mother) and buys a CD and poster of said black group. Good looking guys, soild pop music.
White mom doesn't like little suburban Jenny putting up the poster and this leads to Jenny learning a lesson. (read between the lines here k'?!?) Not that she rips it down, but doesn't directly approve either.
Next she buys a CD and poster of some cute white guys and mom says "Hey Jenny, He's cute!". Approval noticed.
Another lesson learned.

Yup, and I just threw up a little. Thanks. Really.