Too much thought throws me off :(

[makkE]

I am having quite a problem.
I play in a band, where I am the most experienced. I write most of the material and arrange it.

The problem is, on rehearsal, I am constantly listening to what the others do, and especially what they do wrong (wich they still do quite a bit).
The drummer has timing issues (wich are 95% a problem of lacking focus, but that's another story).
He also has tendencies to not strike his crashes hard enough... the new rythm guitarrist mostly overplays, the lead guitarrist has problems with major/minor. (try playing an F on Am when he plays A maj)... all have problems with remembering song structures, got to say the same stuff over and over again...

Whatever. The problem is, whenever something goes wrong, I get totally out of it, and mess up, because I am thinking too much. My drummer usually starts the song with perfect groove, if he has a good day. I play along, try to lock, and everything's great. 2nd time the verse comes around, all the groove is gone, and he might be 2 bpms slower.

Thoughts like "that crash should have been harder" - "oh, he's dragging it again" - "there should be a proper fill here" - "omg he played major again".... "that guitar is out of tune" - all that makes me mess up my own playing.

The bad thing is, they won't listen to me much, when I point stuff out after the song, probably thinking "ye, what does he want, he messed up 2 times"...

Last practice, I got aware of how much I'm analyzing while I play. I could get myself to relax and just try to play my best over what I got from the others. Had a better result right away,
and didn't mess up anymore. Probably the best thing to do for the band in that situation.

It's hard though. I am starting to get a feeling I could relax and just play a lot more if my fellow musicians were a little more decent, not throwing me off all the time.

[MonetBass]

That's understandable, since those songs are your creations and you want them to be just right. I can relate.

But I think as long as the band has the right feel, then you can let the little things go. Song structure -- well, that's an obvious problem. If they can't remember how a song goes, then maybe you should find someone who can. I know that's harsh, but if you're playing in a band, remembering songs is an imperative.

That's good that you're making yourself relax a bit. Keep working, and good luck to you.

[baileyboy]

Originally Posted by makkE

The drummer has timing issues...

This is your biggest obstacle.

[Tampabass]

my brain hurts

[Mirios]

It can be good to lead by example. But I have to agree with the above poster. A drummer with poor timing has been in my past experiences hard to fix.

[AdamJames306]

I used to play in this band. I absolutely loved the guys. They're still, to this day, very close friends of mine. But they were, without a doubt, inferior musicians. I didn't really care at the the time, cuz it was fairly mainstream hard rock and I didn't think it mattered if we couldn't play like Dream Theater. But after a while, I began to realize certain symptoms of a greater problem. The singer/guitarist never practiced singing, and rarely played guitar. The rhythm guitar player didn't really like any extravagant arrangements or outside of the box song-writing. The drummer's timing was always just a little off. After shows, people would routinely come up to me and say things like "Why are you in THAT band?!?" It was demoralizing.

The problem, I eventually realized, was that they were imitators. They were guys who wanted to be rock stars, not great musicians. They wanted to make money, not great music. I always had a suspicion that if the band didn't work out, they were the kind of guys that would never play their guitars again. And I was right.

My point? Don't waste too much of your time trying to make others better. There are too many talented people out there for you to whittle away the hours with wannabes. The music business is unimaginably difficult. Don't let your fellow band members be another obstacle in your path to success. I know this may make me sound like an a**hole, but if you don't find the right group of musicians, someone else will.

[makkE]

Thanks for the replies so far.

The problem with my drummer : He's just not into it.
Sometimes he is, and when he concentrates, he plays great. I might add that he's only 14, and has insane talent, but simply hasn't gotten to take it serious yet - doesn't really want to practice much, I'm trying to get him to practice with a click since 2 years now - he tried it and got scared :/

Mostly though, his mind isn't in it. There's a song where I start, and he just stares around blankly or adjusts his drums while he should already be nodding his head to get into the groove. On days like that, he plays lush and uninspired. But one other days, when he's really listening, he's awesome.

It just cranks me up all the time when he plays bad, because I know he CAN play great.
This guy could be a professional in 5 years if he started to work on it seriously...

The problem is simply, the guys I play with are great for the sort of music we do, but they simply lack here and there. And I haven't found a way to work with them on it yet.

[AdamJames306]

Dude. I didn't know you were that young. Don't sweat it. It takes time and practice as a teenager to get to the level you're looking for. Just keep whipping the guys into shape. I think it's cool that you're young and so concerned with the quality of your fellow band members.

If your 14 year old drummer is as good as you say now, just imagine where the two of you will be after two years of playing together. Stick with it, keep your priorities and your focus together, and you'll be fine.

[tZer]

There is a VERY easy solution - at least for relieving you of the need to constantly monitor other players while playing - RECORD your sessions.

Record everything - it's easy - just put a mic (or pair of mics) in a reasonable spot and hit record before each song. When done, hit stop. Don't get hung up on making a perfect sounding recording - just make sure it's adequate for listening and critiquing. You are not using this as demos - they are working documents for developing your material.

The key, however, is giving everyone (especially yourself) a copy of the session and insisting that they listen to it. The sure-fire method fails miserably when nobody but you is listening. But it still at least means you don't have to be 'on listening duty' so much during the sessions. You can relax a little more and know that the playback will provide you what you need to evaluate the session/songs.

Listening back *should* expose the weak spots to anyone *who listens* (<< Critical)

It also provides you a record for use when constructively critiquing the execution of the song. It helps to be able to say, "Here, listen..." - That way it's not you just being picky - it's the music saying, "yes, this part is weak - please fix me".

[makkE]

True, we should be recording more often.

Adam, the drummer is 14, I am 34, guitarrists are 25 and 20

[tZer]

Originally Posted by makkE

True, we should be recording more often.

Adam, the drummer is 14, I am 34, guitarrists are 25 and 20

Wild age range there.

I can't emphasize enough how recording everything changes the overall band dynamic. When people have a record of what they did and they hear the things they do that don't work, they take personal responsibility for fixing them.

This removes the role of "critic of everyone" from you. You are still the end-point for the overall product, but you are not constantly pointing at other people saying, "your part is not right". That relieves you of an unwanted role and empowers the rest of the group.

In my experience, most 'band guys' click into a 'player mindset' when in the band room. They are playing for the "player's buzz" - which includes an adrenaline rush and other things that are counter to being analytical and making musical decisions that might diminish that energy.

The conversion of the band mind from "hey - let's PLAY!" to "hmm... let's think" takes a little time so you need to be consistent in both recording and distributing the recordings - AND gently insisting everyone do their homework and listen to them.

I've found a lot of guys will take the recordings but never listen. They never come in with new ideas or new insights into their parts or the songs as a whole. They are also the ones who do it the same way each and every time. The one day they finally decide to listen, suddenly they are converted -but they need to make it a regular part of their participation in the project - not some odd thing they do once.

Good luck!

[makkE]

Sounds like very good advice, tzer.
Especially the part of "critic of everyone" is spot on.

I will try with recording every practice.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by makkE

Sounds like very good advice, tzer.
Especially the part of "critic of everyone" is spot on.

I will try with recording every practice.

Good deal. If it helps, here's how I do it:

1) Get things balanced - typically the drums dictate the level that everyone needs to come up to - but you may have to encourage your drummer to be conscious of how hard he/she hits

2) Put a mic in a good spot to capture the room. I arrange my room with the drums in the center, amps beside the drums, PA speakers (usually vocals only) all facing out (like on stage) then the mic is placed at the opposite end of the room. Angle amps and PA speakers so they point at the mics.

3) Mics feed directly into a mixer or preamp then (for me) directly into my laptop and I use Soundforge to record things. Make sure your levels are good in your recording software.

4) Go for it. Play through one song and quickly give it a listen. If you can hear everything and it's not obnoxious - you've got it. Otherwise, make adjustments (bring up the bass, bring down the guitar, etc... I tend to try to make the vocals the most prominent thing)

5) I have Soundforge configured to save directly to MP3 - if anyone has an mp3 player or a USB stick, they can just take the files and go. Otherwise I post them to a website and send everyone a link so they can download them.

6) I've found that listening in the car on my way to (wherever) is the ideal time to review these recordings. I share that idea with my group and they agree - put the recordings on something that you can listen to when driving, riding, jogging, working out - anytime you are in a position where you can listen for a while.

[baileyboy]

Originally Posted by makkE

the drummer is 14...

This is your second biggest obstacle.

[madmatt]

This is way I say, "I can drum, but I am not a drummer..."

[RosieB]

My daughter plays drums. She's 12. Same focus issues, same exact click-track experience. Some days she's awesome, some days she makes me want to bash my head against a brick wall. And she does tend to lose the beat or get behind by the end of a song. But at least she realizes it. I really think it's just the age and they'll both grow out of it.

Best thing I've found that REALLY improves her keeping a beat is letting her use the drum trainer on RockBand(2?). I was VERY against it at first until I realized what a major difference it made in her overall playing. So I let that be part of her legitimate practice time. If he has the game, maybe make a suggestion?

[Icey101]

think of it in two phases....the core song....basic structure which is the easy part, get this down first with the band then introduce the fancy bits after, so well done guys got the timing right and changes....then next rehearsal work on the lead breaks etc

work this out as a bit of a process for all songs....like baby step process

[Icey101]

and as been said before record the session and send it out to everyone and ask how they think they went etc

[jb63]

Checkout my sig

[Munjibunga]

I've found this to be very true: If you're thinkin', you're stinkin'.