Too old to make a living playing bass??!!

[woodchips]

Hi all,

This is a subject I've been struggling with ALOT lately. I am in my 30's and have been playing bass in cover bands, and as a background musician since I was 20. (While practicing on and off since I was about 17.) I never followed through with my jazz studies and learned to apply the theory I learned in a well known music school to my instrument. Yes, I can write out all the 7th chords you want but no I can't play them in all keys all over my bass nor can I play through changes.

I stayed on the "safe" path and never went out of my comfort zone while in school. (My comfort zone was being known as the player that could learn a gazillion pop, rock, funk etc. tunes in a week and be ready to go. No improvisation!) I graduated later in life, started playing later in life and now find myself wanting to play changes, standards and the repetoire later in life. I am practicing some great material, the material I wish I had started 10 years ago, and it's a long, slow and very frustrating process.

I will never be someone with alot of chops, or someone who can blow over changes at the drop of a hat, I wish. At my age I'm wondering can I possibly even hope to play through the real book comfortably, playing gigs weekly? It seems like such an impossible task and I honestly feel like I am so behind, I may not get to where I can process this information until I hit 40; let alone earn a living playing the type of music I'd like to play now.

This may be an odd post, but progress is very slow at this stage as I am literally going all the way back to the basics, practcing 7th chords all over the neck in all inversions over 251's and that sort of thing to really internalize this material. I'm wondering if anyone has an opinion on learning jazz and improvisation later in life and if there is any hope of actually being able to overcome the hurdles of time, age and the fact that as you get older (as in not starting to learn music when you are a kid) you learn ALOT differently.

Thank you for any guidance.

[JumboJack]

You should be ok....The cut off age is 58...

[Deremus]

I have the exact opposite problem as you. I am 14 and my band is playing around 2 gigs a week of three 45 minute sets. I initially thought that I was too young to even play a half hour set but I have progressed to be playing many gigs. My dad has a friend who is around 50 and who has sold me all my guitar/bass equipment. He originally started as a guitarist in the Jesus Christ Superstar rock opera at the age of 16. He stopped playing gigs at around the age of 30 to focus on his dirt bike salesman career, until recently when he heard of live jams on stage. He went to a jam and had the time of his life playing music for 5 hours straight. After 20 years of being a salesman and collecting and selling guitars he was ready to go back into it. Now he jams live all the time an it just shows me from the 6 year old who played on stage with Ozzy Osbourne to B.B King who is 85 (and who I saw last month and he still has that showmanship) that anyone can go out and do what they love.

[kesslari]

You're never too old to learn to play well in a variety of contexts. I just did my first real-book gig at age 50. I can do more if I want 'em - that much was made clear. Not saying I blew the doors off anyone or anything.

But "make a living" - depends on your definition of making a living. Jazz musicians here play for dinner and tips, or $50 a night. 5 $50 a night gigs per week is roughly $1K a month. I'd hardly call that "making a living".

Two different questions, IMO. And IMO - practice, and play with other folks playing the music you love, and you'll improve. Put yourself in situations where where you need to improve, and you will improve.

But as far as making a living - well, for me, I'm glad I have a good day job. I can still play all kinds of music, and I can own a house, a decent car, and support a family. IMO it's the best of both worlds for a cat of decent-but-not-world-class-abilities like myself.

[faulknersj]

I'm in the same boat (36 years old now) with jazz, although already making aliving playing music. I bought Ed Freidlands walking basslines book and am making good progress. I highly recommend this book as it comes with a CD that has tons of tracks that you can read and play along with. Rather than focusing on learning 7th chords and their inversions up and down the neck, I recommend starting in the first position (pointer finger in the F of your E string) and learning triads for all the different chord shapes that appear on the charts. Having focused on this, I can already read my way thru Sinatra charts. The key is to practice reading the charts and in orfer to get to the point where you are not having to look at your left hand. Chromatic approaches are also a really easy way to cop that walking jazz feel. I am also a learning novice but am quickly realizing that you will get out what you pust in. The more time you dedicate to this pursuit, the faster you will be on your way. I also recommend finding a bass instructor that teaches jazz. It took me months, but I finally found the right teacher. I hope this helps in some way.

[omnimutant]

Making a living in the entertainment business has way more to do with Marketing and very little to do with Talent. If you can hold your own, your fine, just get the word out anyway you can and get creative with new ways to sell yourself.

[woodchips]

Thanks for the responses. It's pretty overwhelming when you want to be playing a certain style and you just aren't there. There's always kids that are 17 that can play circles around you and it's.......life.

Thank you for the ideas faulknersj. I'll check out the book and it's great you've been making a living playing.

[Insouciance]

Age is just a number. It is all about attitude. Half the time those 17 year olds playing circles around you are so full of themselves people won't want to work with them. With age comes experience, and even if you aren't a seasoned veteran, you can still hold yourself as someone who has been around the block.

[Mike M.]

Originally Posted by JumboJack

You should be ok....The cut off age is 58...

Ya beat me to it. Turned 58 in March.

[Roy Vogt]

I second the idea that you're never too old to learn. I put down String Bass in 1980 after I moved to Nashville and didn't touch it again for 13 years. Then I bought an EUB and messed around with it on Recording Sessions for another 10 years. When I finally stopped touring with Engelbert in 2003 at age 47 I bought a new String Bass (my old one was in pieces at that point) and started studying Legit Bass and the new (to me) technique of Rabbath and Vance. It's 8 years later and I make about 50% of my income on String Bass.
Remember, Wes Montgomery didn't start playing guitar until he was 19 years old! It's never too late, and unlike being a Rock Star, you can do this at any age that you can play. I'm going to see Sonny Rollins this Fall in Nashville and he's in his 80s and still killin'.

[analog_freak]

This is a great thread. I'm 51 and going through the same thought process. I've had some college music classes but only briefly have I ever had a bass teacher. At some point, the walking-bass skills more-or-less just started happening. So, I consider myself proof that taking some music-theory and related courses can be helpful. I'm pretty good at navigating through new tunes straight out of the Real Book. Nothing yet to write home to Mom about, but it's coming along steadily, despite my having a fairly demanding day job. I'm ready to think about the "career change" of working as a jazz bassist, even if I have to move elsewhere, to a place that embraces jazz more than my area (Little Rock area).

My question is, is it really necessary to play string bass, or can one do this with bass guitar and/or EUB? One of the things I would do if I make the jump is to live in a city where one can be car-free, and obviously an upright would be harder to take on public transit than a short-scale fretless bass guitar and small combo amp.

The other question, besides whether one can play jazz gigs regularly with electric bass, is whether I'm crazy to think in terms of taking it to the extra step: ditching the car, ditching the suburban garage with a house attached, and living in a small loft in a downtown area somewhere by getting around via public transit.

Thanks for any replies.

[Stingray89]

You're never too old man. As long as you have some skill bassists usually have plenty of work because we're so few and far between.

[Aussie Player]

If you pass the audition.....you can make a living,

[Ric5]

I used to be under the delusion that bass playing could be a good career. But then I realized that it was sort of like all the actors in Hollywood that have to wait tables to make enough money to eat. Yes a few bass players make good money. But most of us have to work a day job to be able to afford our expensive instruments.

I finally realized that I can't afford the pay cut I would take if I "made it" in the music business.

[tekdiver500ft]

I, too, am getting older (43). I was a vocal jazz performance major and instrumental music education minor in college, but had never played a bass until very recently. I was asked to join a band as rhythm guitarist, then the bass player quit, so I'm learning how to play that. I really kick myself for not learning before, I've always played low instruments (trombone, tuba, baritone sax, etc) and sing bass, so I'm just loving this instrument. I may never get to be great, but I'm having fun and make enough money to pay for my music. That's all I can ask at this point. Can you make a living, starting at 30? Absolutely! You just have to dedicate yourself to that pursuit. I've heard that the only commonality among all the truly great musicians is that they all practice 5-8 hours per day. This means that anyone with the drive can do the same.

[Roy Vogt]

Another thought: If you really want to work, consider adding URB to your bag of musical tricks. If I had to choose between a EUB and a URB I would opt for the Real Deal and have a decent luthier set it up. There are few bassists out there who can play anything, but there are fewer still who play both basses well. There always seems to be something I can do with one or the other so I'm always busy.