Top 40 ain't what it used to be

[hrodbert696]

I just realized how much I've had my head buried in the sand. In my mind, I've generally assumed that the meat and potatoes of popular music ever since the sixties has been rock and roll -- guitar driven, boom-boom-chick rock and roll.

I just started playing with a second band whose avowed purpose is to play contemporary, top 40, pop-punk rock music. OK, I think, sounds good. I go to check the current hot 100 and look for songs I should be learning.

There is next to NOTHING there that seems to fit the category. A few items crop up if you reach down below a given year's top 40 into the top 100, but even then, rock seems to be almost absent, shouldered out by soul and hip hop and the like. Now, of course, I wasn't so blinkered that I didn't realize that those genres were popular. For that matter, of course, Madonna and DeBarge and Chaka Khan are all over the 80s charts from my own teen years. It wasn't their presence that surprised me, but the almost total absence of rock music from the charts.

Am I completely off in my impressions here? Does anyone think this relates to the challenges guitar- (and bass-) driven bands have getting gigs, competing with DJs, etc.? Does your band (referring largely to cover bands, here) shift its setlists to follow trends on the charts?

[DWBass]

Real Top40 music is very wide ranging! Being a cover band and narrowing song choices/genres is unrealistic! You have to know your demographic and play to them. If you just wanna play kick @$$ rock music, don't expect large paydays. Do it for the love of the music. But if your intent is to get paid and paid well, you will have to broaden your horizons and open your mind to other styles of music. Wanna get that conga-line going? 'Hot Hot Hot' does it everytime!

That's why I don't understand the 100's of hardcore punk, rock and metal bands in my area! Some bands are decent but there's no money to be made playing it. IF that's the intent. The better bands mix it up and play everything.

Not sure I answered your question. Top40 doesn't mean just rock music.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by DWBass

The better bands mix it up and play everything.

Even my band does that!

[aztomr]

I just read that last year was the worst year in terms of rock music in the top 200. The article was about a funeral for rock and roll held in England recently. While I agree rock music seems to be at a low point, I'm sure someone will come along and breathe new life into it. Its a cyclic thing, it'll come back around. Regular classic rock and roll is currently "uncool", which makes it cool.

[subexpression]

The system of charting top 40 songs has changed over the years.

It was originally based on record companies sending CD's to retailers, and gauge a single's success based on this regardless if they sold or not. Even if they were returned unsold, they were counted.

Billboard originally counted retail sales of singles...but since people don't buy singles anymore, it's an inaccurate measurement. Recently, the system has undergone an overhaul with the advent of the internet. Now (I'm pretty sure), radio airplay, downloads from Rhapsody, iTunes and other internet retail sites as well as ringtones are calculated in order to arrive at a more evenly-balanced system of determining top 40 songs.

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Real Top40 music is very wide ranging! Being a cover band and narrowing song choices/genres is unrealistic! You have to know your demographic and play to them. If you just wanna play kick @$$ rock music, don't expect large paydays. Do it for the love of the music. But if your intent is to get paid and paid well, you will have to broaden your horizons and open your mind to other styles of music. Wanna get that conga-line going? 'Hot Hot Hot' does it everytime!

I do totally get this, and the new band is trying to think more broadly. The (emerging) setlist includes rocked-out versions of Rihanna and Lady Gaga. The stress is on POP-punk.

That's why I don't understand the 100's of hardcore punk, rock and metal bands in my area! Some bands are decent but there's no money to be made playing it. IF that's the intent. The better bands mix it up and play everything.

Same thing in my area. Everyone on Craigslist is summoning the masses to form new metal bands, usually with some kind of -core term to define the genre. As near as I can tell there are more people playing metal than listening to it.

Not sure I answered your question. Top40 doesn't mean just rock music.

Yes, but like I said, I never thought the top 40 was ALL rock music -- I just thought that it might be divided, say, equally between rock, soul, and hip-hop, or something like that, those genres (and whatever others) getting a quarter to a third of the chart each. Instead it seems like, for the last few years, you wouldn't need two hands' worth of fingers to count all the rock songs on it.

Now, here's for further thought - I went and pulled the DJs' list of the top 200 requests of the past 12 months. Here's the top 10:

1 AC/DC You Shook Me All Night Long
2 Timberlake, Justin Sexyback
3 Def Leppard Pour Some Sugar On Me
4 Morrison, Van Brown Eyed Girl
5 B-52's Love Shack
6 Lynyrd Skynyrd Sweet Home Alabama
7 Bon Jovi Livin' On A Prayer
8 ABBA Dancing Queen
9 Journey Don't Stop Believin'
10 Diamond, Neil Sweet Caroline

AC/DC, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Journey, the dreaded Sweet Home Alabama and Brown-Eyed Girl... Of the kind of stuff dominating the current hot100 charts, only Justin Timberlake represented in the DJs' top 10. Reactions?

[hrodbert696]

Oh and someone tell the dam' kids to GET OFF MY LAWN!

S'pose I should have remembered to say that.

Continue your discussion, please.

[Chad Michael]

(as a grumpy 43 year old) Back in the day (late 70's, & 80's) the 'top 40' used to be just stinky with cool-ass well-written groovy music.

Now? It just stinks.

[subexpression]

I'm more of a niche player—specializing in technical music which both appeals to a wide audience and is personally satisfying to play.

Top 40 means nothing to me since I'm not playing for money or notoriety of any sort.
But, we do select songs which will appeal to both sexes, wide age ranges, and have something for everyone...almost.

In my area, cover bands get gigs. Unless you're back-to-back with 2 other original bands, there's no chance of getting a 1.5 hour gig to showcase your originals. Covers are it. So, to play the game, we select cover songs which fit our genre, satisfy the rock standards, and intermingle our originals throughout our sets.

Rock and metal will always dominate bar bands where I live (Cedar Rapids, IA). Country bands make more money, but they have fewer venues to play in. We have about 20 to 30 bars in a 10 mile radius which only want rock bands. Fine with me!

[plangentmusic]

Originally Posted by hrodbert696

I do totally get this, and the new band is trying to think more broadly. The (emerging) setlist includes rocked-out versions of Rihanna and Lady Gaga. The stress is on POP-punk.



Same thing in my area. Everyone on Craigslist is summoning the masses to form new metal bands, usually with some kind of -core term to define the genre. As near as I can tell there are more people playing metal than listening to it.



Yes, but like I said, I never thought the top 40 was ALL rock music -- I just thought that it might be divided, say, equally between rock, soul, and hip-hop, or something like that, those genres (and whatever others) getting a quarter to a third of the chart each. Instead it seems like, for the last few years, you wouldn't need two hands' worth of fingers to count all the rock songs on it.

Now, here's for further thought - I went and pulled the DJs' list of the top 200 requests of the past 12 months. Here's the top 10:

1 AC/DC You Shook Me All Night Long
2 Timberlake, Justin Sexyback
3 Def Leppard Pour Some Sugar On Me
4 Morrison, Van Brown Eyed Girl
5 B-52's Love Shack
6 Lynyrd Skynyrd Sweet Home Alabama
7 Bon Jovi Livin' On A Prayer
8 ABBA Dancing Queen
9 Journey Don't Stop Believin'
10 Diamond, Neil Sweet Caroline

AC/DC, Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Journey, the dreaded Sweet Home Alabama and Brown-Eyed Girl... Of the kind of stuff dominating the current hot100 charts, only Justin Timberlake represented in the DJs' top 10. Reactions?

Excluding Def Leppard, that list is a "must have" of any competent wedding band. I'd say I've played everyone of those songs on most every wedding gig I've played in the last 10 years.

So it depends on the venue, but these days, a "dance band" needs to do a mix of styles from various eras.

[AcidFripp]

Originally Posted by aztomr

I just read that last year was the worst year in terms of rock music in the top 200. The article was about a funeral for rock and roll held in England recently. While I agree rock music seems to be at a low point, I'm sure someone will come along and breathe new life into it. Its a cyclic thing, it'll come back around. Regular classic rock and roll is currently "uncool", which makes it cool.

Utter nonsense. Underground (and semi-underground) bands release some great rock music year after year after year, but instead of recognising it, people call rock music dead? Nonsense!

[s_mcsleazy]

Originally Posted by AcidFripp

Utter nonsense. Underground (and semi-underground) bands release some great rock music year after year after year, but instead of recognising it, people call rock music dead? Nonsense!

couldent agree more. all you got to do is look outside the norm.

theres one small band im really into atm called imperial china. there unique and have got lots of skills, perhaps to pay the bills even. will they be as recognised as lady gaga, no. do i care, not really. good music gets around even if they have the odds stacked against them

[Ric5]

I played in several cover bands in the last 12 years.

Here's some of the songs.

Loser Three Doors Down
Blurry Puddle of Mudd
Been awhile Staind
Higher Creed
My Sacrifice Creed
Machine Head Bush
My Own Worst Enemy Lit
Gel Collective Soul
Pride and Joy SRV
Keep your hands to yourself George Satellites
Jumpin Jack Flash Rolling Stones
The Middle Jimmy Eat World
Authority Song John Mellencamp
Control Puddle of Mudd
How You Remind Me Nickelback
When I'm Gone Three Doors Down
Tush ZZ Top
Bittersweet Fuel
When I'm Gone Three Doors Down
Summer of 69 Brian Adams
Hurts So Good John Mellencamp
Give Me Three Steps Lynard Skynard
Basket Case Greenday
Kryptonite Three Doors Down
Hard To Handle Black Crows
Flavor of the Week American Hi-Fi
Slide Goo Goo Dolls
Arms Wide Open Creed
Honkey Tonk Woman Rolling Stones
Some Kind of Wonderful Grand Funk Railroad
All right Now Free
Man in a Box Alice in Chains
One Creed
Wonderful Tonight Eric Clapton
Brown Eyed Girl Morrison
She Hates Me Puddle of Mudd
Boys of Summer Henley
Barracuda Heart
Vertigo U2
Rebel Yell Billy Idol
White Wedding Billy Idol
Away from the Sun 3 Doors Down
New Years Day U2
Thank You Led Zepplin
Sweet Emotion Aerosmith
The Middle Jimmy eat World
Badge Cream
Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers ZZtop
Crossroads Cream
Immigrant Song Zepplin
Blue On Black Kenny Wayne Sheapard
Waitin For the Bus ZZtop
Jesus Just Left Chicago ZZtop
Stormy Monday Blues
Midnight Rider Allman Brothers
Blurry Puddle of Mud
Cold Hard Bitch Jet
Come Together Beatles
In The city Joe Walsh
Gimme Shelter Rolling Stones
Psycho Killer Talking Heads
Everlong Foo Fighters

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by AcidFripp

Utter nonsense. Underground (and semi-underground) bands release some great rock music year after year after year, but instead of recognising it, people call rock music dead? Nonsense!

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

couldent agree more. all you got to do is look outside the norm.

theres one small band im really into atm called imperial china. there unique and have got lots of skills, perhaps to pay the bills even. will they be as recognised as lady gaga, no. do i care, not really. good music gets around even if they have the odds stacked against them

Here's what I'm wondering when I read this: is this itself part of the phenomenon? I mean, are the audiences who like rock music all turning to different, lesser-known acts, rather than everyone following big supergroups? That could mean that just as many people are listening to rock as a whole, but that no one rock group (or short list of groups) is getting enough attention to crack the hot 100.

Or is it really just that audiences are going hip-hop/pop and rock and roll is slowly going the way of jazz, blues, and classical music, beloved of musicians and aficionados but no longer holding the ear of the general public?

[Lesfunk]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I played in several cover bands in the last 12 years.

Here's some of the songs.

Loser Three Doors Down
Blurry Puddle of Mudd
Been awhile Staind
Higher Creed
My Sacrifice Creed
Machine Head Bush
My Own Worst Enemy Lit
Gel Collective Soul
Pride and Joy SRV
Keep your hands to yourself George Satellites
Jumpin Jack Flash Rolling Stones
The Middle Jimmy Eat World
Authority Song John Mellencamp
Control Puddle of Mudd
How You Remind Me Nickelback
When I'm Gone Three Doors Down
Tush ZZ Top
Bittersweet Fuel
When I'm Gone Three Doors Down
Summer of 69 Brian Adams
Hurts So Good John Mellencamp
Give Me Three Steps Lynard Skynard
Basket Case Greenday
Kryptonite Three Doors Down
Hard To Handle Black Crows
Flavor of the Week American Hi-Fi
Slide Goo Goo Dolls
Arms Wide Open Creed
Honkey Tonk Woman Rolling Stones
Some Kind of Wonderful Grand Funk Railroad
All right Now Free
Man in a Box Alice in Chains
One Creed
Wonderful Tonight Eric Clapton
Brown Eyed Girl Morrison
She Hates Me Puddle of Mudd
Boys of Summer Henley
Barracuda Heart
Vertigo U2
Rebel Yell Billy Idol
White Wedding Billy Idol
Away from the Sun 3 Doors Down
New Years Day U2
Thank You Led Zepplin
Sweet Emotion Aerosmith
The Middle Jimmy eat World
Badge Cream
Beer Drinkers and Hell Raisers ZZtop
Crossroads Cream
Immigrant Song Zepplin
Blue On Black Kenny Wayne Sheapard
Waitin For the Bus ZZtop
Jesus Just Left Chicago ZZtop
Stormy Monday Blues
Midnight Rider Allman Brothers
Blurry Puddle of Mud
Cold Hard Bitch Jet
Come Together Beatles
In The city Joe Walsh
Gimme Shelter Rolling Stones
Psycho Killer Talking Heads
Everlong Foo Fighters

The Jimmy Eat World song must have been so good you played it twice!

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Real Top40 music is very wide ranging! Being a cover band and narrowing song choices/genres is unrealistic! You have to know your demographic and play to them.

This is the most important thing. The top 40s band I'm playing with does a little of everything and we tailor the sets to the bars we're playing. Some places surprise you though. We played a small bar in the boonies and they had country on the radio when we walked, so I was thinking we weren't going to be well received (our first gig there, drummer had done a visit when an 80s rock band was playing). By 9pm the country was gone and they were blasting current pop/hip-hop hits including songs that were upcoming in our first set, we kept the place bumpin' all night and have been booking there on a regular schedule since.

Keep it loose. Even if it's rockish covers of pop songs, people usually dig it as long as you've got the groove and they can dance.

[BigOldHarry]

This discussion... Again?

A buddy of mine and I were talking about this same thread from a few weeks back started by BlueWine... You know - "everything now on the radio stinks / everything back in the day was great..." Very silly.

True, the nature of radio has changed - back in the '70s, it was the only source for music, and the transition from AM to FM was not complete - so there WAS some very cool stations playing interesting music... I see it that FM now is like AM was when I was a kid - and what you can find on the internet is a lot like what we'd hear on "AOR" FM. There's good stuff out there - more than ever, in fact. You just have to LOOK for it, and refuse to live in the past.

[PopaWoody]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

This discussion... Again?

A buddy of mine and I were talking about this same thread from a few weeks back started by BlueWine... You know - "everything now on the radio stinks / everything back in the day was great..." Very silly.

True, the nature of radio has changed - back in the '70s, it was the only source for music, and the transition from AM to FM was not complete - so there WAS some very cool stations playing interesting music... I see it that FM now is like AM was when I was a kid - and what you can find on the internet is a lot like what we'd hear on "AOR" FM. There's good stuff out there - more than ever, in fact. You just have to LOOK for it, and refuse to live in the past.

Well said....

[deaf pea]

Originally Posted by Lesfunk

The Jimmy Eat World song must have been so good you played it twice!

Blurry Puddle of Mud is also listed twice . . . . . .

[hrodbert696]

Originally Posted by BigOldHarry

This discussion... Again?

A buddy of mine and I were talking about this same thread from a few weeks back started by BlueWine... You know - "everything now on the radio stinks / everything back in the day was great..." Very silly.

True, the nature of radio has changed - back in the '70s, it was the only source for music, and the transition from AM to FM was not complete - so there WAS some very cool stations playing interesting music... I see it that FM now is like AM was when I was a kid - and what you can find on the internet is a lot like what we'd hear on "AOR" FM. There's good stuff out there - more than ever, in fact. You just have to LOOK for it, and refuse to live in the past.

Point of clarification -- if you read my original post, I did not at any point say that there's anything wrong with contemporary music. A lot of it is not my thing, but I have no problem with it per se and I did not mean to invite complaints about it.

My point is the extent of the genre shift in terms of what's actually popular now. I assume a lot of us play in bands with some sort of drum/guitar/bass core to them, and a lot of what I see on the current hot100, especially at its upper end, is not built around that, even to the extent that it was five or ten years ago (let alone twenty or thirty). I'm wondering whether others observe the same thing and how it translates into how people's bands are operating, especially cover bands but, I suppose, also how original bands are positioning/marketing themselves.

There's a lot of great jazz music being written and played now, too -- and blues, etc. But the fact that the music is great isn't making it rank on the top 40, it's a niche with a particular constituency. I can find music I like - new and old - just fine, I'm not complaining about that. I'm not complaining at all -- I'm trying to explore how the shifting popularity of genres affects how and what we play.